lib are talking to labour please tell me it's not so

ninky_2

julieq wrote: »

A Clegg is showing himself as a cynical careerist bent on imposing his will regardless of the expressed wish of the electorate, .

until he sides with the tories again and then he is a 'dignified' and 'reasonable' man.

this would be funny but unfortunately i think it will be the rest of the world laughing.

Really2

Degenerate wrote: »

When 2nd + 3rd = 52.6% of the votes, more than any government in living memory, and enough for a parliamentary majority under a PR system.

Irrelevant really though, as they won't have a workable majority of seats under the current system.

But it is 2 party's not one..... do we really want 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 party deals every time there is a vote.
All the percentages show is that a Con/Lib is the strongest with nearly 60% of the country's vote, 52.6% is not that strong it only takes a few not turning up or disagreeing to stop laws/policy going through. That is why it has to be an overwhelmingg majority, etiher way Lib/Lab can not supply that.

julieq

To be honest I wouldn't work with Clegg now under any circumstances. He started out with a great deal of kudos and moral authority, he did the right thing by talking to the largest party and stressing the key to the choice was the national interest rather than narrow partisan interests. But it looks like that was simply a negotiating position. He talks a good game, but he behaves like a typically self serving double dealing politician.

What is likely to happen is a fudged government of one colour or another limping to another early election. It is unlikely he will get voting reform because there is still implacable Labour party opposition to this idea. We could have had a reasonably strong transitional arrangement where a couple of years of painful readjustment could have taken place before a new election.

The crazy thing is that he was winning. He had won a lot of the arguments at the election in favour of the centre left approach. People trusted him. He would have had a lot of influence over the result of a referendum to change voting system, and he would have had an effective brake over a Tory party he could quite reasonably have blamed directly for the pain of the next two years. So quite what game he thinks he is playing now is beyond me. It is tactically and philosophically inept.

chucky

ninky wrote: »

totally agree. nick robinson is being a total !!!!!! these days. i can't believe the bbc are letting him get away with it. they are supposed to put all sides to an argument and many times his so-called neutral opinion has just been an excuse to have a childish go at gordon brown.

wasn't he chairman of the young conservatives... he's obviously has no bias.
on the other hand the BBC must look after who the future government is...

it's always good to see Boulton on Sky choke and get a beating yesterday. it couldn't happen to a nicer guy

Emy1501

Not sure what people really expected. The Lib Dems clearly lean to the left. It also seemed obvious when he would not comment on whether the party with the biggest mandate was the one who got most seats or votes before the election which seemed strange from a party heavily in favour of PR.

I suspect the Lib Dems may still end up with the Tories but its clear that that will only be because this is the only way the figures really stack up which is going to make it pretty unstable anyway and i can't see how the Tories will trust Clegg after his first secret talks with Labour .

POPPYOSCAR

ninky wrote: »

but av has long been a lib dem central policy. and was set out as a key manifesto pledge before the election. why is it shameful or dishonorable to stick by one of your manifesto pledges???

Because Nick Clegg said that he was putting the National Interest first,before party politics

POPPYOSCAR

Lotus-eater wrote: »

I voted lib dem and I'm not happy about it....

We all vote and then they sit down, do dodgy, whatever deals they like and decide who will be in charge.

It's all very grubby and wrong.

Unlike some of you though, I don't blame the lib dems, they're just trying to get as many of their ideas into the government as they can, they're using the system and in a totally legal way.
It's the system that's wrong.

The reason I blame the Lib/Dems is because Nick Clegg came out right at the beginning saying he would do what was in the National interest, which was obviously a lie.The Tories have given in against their party politics for the sake of the country.If he had been honest from the start, it would not have made so many of the public so angry with him.Listen to the emails and texts that the TV channels are getting from people.Even Labour MPs are saying this is wrong and that labour will suffer for it at the next General Election.

ash28

julieq wrote: »

To be honest I wouldn't work with Clegg now under any circumstances. He started out with a great deal of kudos and moral authority, he did the right thing by talking to the largest party and stressing the key to the choice was the national interest rather than narrow partisan interests. But it looks like that was simply a negotiating position. He talks a good game, but he behaves like a typically self serving double dealing politician.

What is likely to happen is a fudged government of one colour or another limping to another early election. It is unlikely he will get voting reform because there is still implacable Labour party opposition to this idea. We could have had a reasonably strong transitional arrangement where a couple of years of painful readjustment could have taken place before a new election.

The crazy thing is that he was winning. He had won a lot of the arguments at the election in favour of the centre left approach. People trusted him. He would have had a lot of influence over the result of a referendum to change voting system, and he would have had an effective brake over a Tory party he could quite reasonably have blamed directly for the pain of the next two years. So quite what game he thinks he is playing now is beyond me. It is tactically and philosophically inept.

The Tories big mistake was jumping straight into negotiations with the Lib Dems. They should have played the waiting game. They should have insisted that Labour, as the incumbent govt take the first throw of the dice. They should have let Labour and the Lib Dems negotiate first, yes it would have been a gamble, but it probably would have paid off.

Would Gordon Brown have offered his resignation? Perhaps not. Instead they have put the ball firmly in Labour's court for the time being. They have managed to do this on their own.

Was Gordon Brown's offer to let the party with the most seats make the first attempt to form a government and to wait and see the out come of the negotiations a political masterstroke for the Labour party?

The Tories have put themselves in a bit of a weak position through some fairly poor judgement. And last night came across as fairly desperate when William Hague offered a referendum.

They have no one to blame but themselves to be honest. If this is a portent of the future judgement from a Tory administration, I for one, will not be a happy bunny.

But as the saying goes "it ain't over till it's over".

The offer of a referendum may just be what the Lib Dems were after.

And as for Nick Clegg, well he is a politician too, and no different from the rest, although there is a lot talk about the national interest, I'm sure that the interests of the party come pretty high up the list too.

kennyboy66_2

chucky wrote: »

wasn't he chairman of the young conservatives... he's obviously has no bias.
on the other hand the BBC must look after who the future government is...

it's always good to see Boulton on Sky choke and get a beating yesterday. it couldn't happen to a nicer guy

All part of the liberal BBC agenda Chucky.;)

I thought that the Lib-Dems going into negotiations with the Tories would be a bit like the Christians & the Lions. However, as a mate pointed out, they have waited for decades for this opportunity and its no surprise that they are playing their hand well.

The Tories of course were so over confident about getting a majority that their only fall back plan was sucking up to the Ulster parties.

My guess is that the Lib-Dems will jump into bed with the Tories today or tomorrow, and this horse trading of the last few days will be forgotten about.
Lib Dems get a lot of what the wanted bar Trident.
They may be able to claim AV, £10k tax allowance and scrapping of ID cards.

As for the seethers on here saying they will never now put the Lib-Dems down 2nd after the Tories under AV - you have to laugh.
Where are they going to go, UKIP, BNP ?

kennyboy66_2

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

[/B]

The Tories have given in against their party politics for the sake of the country.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Are you Michael Gove ?