lib are talking to labour please tell me it's not so

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

tomterm8 wrote: »

Tories need to stop whinning

Stop whinning.

Is 'whinning' a posh version of 'whining'?

tomterm8

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Is 'whinning' a posh version of 'whining'?

You might say that, but I couldn't possibly comment.

PrivatisetheNHSnow

if we have a fair electoral system, then we need to have no more labour gerrymandering and no more postal vote fraud as well...

Sir_Humphrey

tomterm8 wrote: »

Stop whinning.

They stopped "whinning" in 1997. :rotfl::rotfl:

marklv

Politics is indeed the 'art of the possible'. It's all about making things happen. Whatever Clegg does many people will be very pi**ed off - there is no easy option. It's all very well for Cameron to agree to a vote on AV, but will his party agree to it. Tebbit and others are already spitting poison even about ANY kind of accommodation with the Lib-Dems, let alone a deal on AV.

julieq

marklv wrote: »

I don't believe there should be a referendum on AV because this system is merely an adjustment of the existing FPTP arrangement, not proper proportional representation. AV would give slightly more seats to the Lib Dems, but it is still not a properly representative electoral system. Referendums need to be kept for really radical, fundamental changes and AV does not fit the bill. STV is a proper PR system and in this case a referendum would be appropriate.

Total rubbish. If you allow Labour to alter the voting system without manifesto commitment in order to stay in power then you are explicitly allowing any ruling party to change the rules to suit themselves without authority. Remember that the boundary changes under Labour have ensured that although the Conservatives have done better than Labour in 2005 in terms of the split of votes, they can still not form a majority government and you can see that Labour have previous form on this.

AV institutionalises tactical voting, it gives left facing voters essentially two goes at beating right facing voters who have no practical second vote alternative. If there is to be PR of any sort, if the Liberals always side with Labour then we have a one party state supported by statute, which is lethally dangerous.

And bearing in mind Labour just suffered their worst defeat since 1931 they have no mandate to do anything at all, let alone change the voting system. Similarly the Liberals actually reduced their representation at this election, which is hardly an expression of widespread popular support.

The principled thing to do for voting reform is to have a referendum. This will ensure a fair debate both ways, and no-one believing that reform is a good thing could possibly object to that debate. Single issue, single vote, end of.

What are you scared of?

Sir_Humphrey

julieq wrote: »

AV institutionalises tactical voting, it gives left facing voters essentially two goes at beating right facing voters who have no practical second vote alternative. If there is to be PR of any sort, if the Liberals always side with Labour then we have a one party state supported by statute, which is lethally dangerous.

But the current system splits the left-of-centre vote. Face it, there are more centre-left people than centre-right people in the UK.

Personally, I think AV is insufficiently proportional.

Perhaps if well-off/rich people did not cling together in rich home-county enclaves, then the Tory vote would be better distributed under FPTP.

Really2

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

Perhaps if well-off/rich people did not cling together in rich home-county enclaves, then the Tory vote would be better distributed under FPTP.

Not true, the Tory party have a majority in England. They only don't have a majority overall because some loons let other country's have their own parliaments but can still vote on ours even though we can't vote on theirs.

England overwhelmingly back the conservatives at this election. That is not a fact you can hide from.

A._Badger

Sir_Humphrey wrote: »

But the current system splits the left-of-centre vote. Face it, there are more centre-left people than centre-right people in the UK.

Wishing it don't make it so.

kennyboy66_2

julieq wrote: »

Total rubbish. If you allow Labour to alter the voting system without manifesto commitment in order to stay in power then you are explicitly allowing any ruling party to change the rules to suit themselves without authority. Remember that the boundary changes under Labour have ensured that although the Conservatives have done better than Labour in 2005 in terms of the split of votes, they can still not form a majority government and you can see that Labour have previous form on this.

The last Boundary changes (review 2003-2005, implemented 2005) actually favoured the Tories (13 new seats, 10 Tory, 1 Labour, 1 Lib Dem, of the 9 abolished 6 were Labour).

Of course the actual facts interfere with the "Boo hoo, its not fair, we won 36% of the vote, Labour gerrymandering, crying" from the Tory seethers.

Seething I tell ya, foaming from their rancid mouths.

Now they are whingeing about having no where else to go under AV.

I would have thought UKIP & the BNP will welcome all the homophobic, misogynist, racist, europhobes on the right of the Tory party.