Electricity meter going backwards after installing Solar PV

Cardew

power-one wrote: »

Regarding electric meters that go backwards.

I have been pondering over this for a while now and my head hurts!

The FITS terms states that EDF will pay me for 100% of my PV generation and for 50% of what is generated at the export rate.
My meter runs backwards when exporting
Do the FITS terms in effect not allow a meter to run backwards as I am already being paid for what I export?
Is that why they say I must have a meter that is 'Stopped' to prevent it going backwards?
Or are the FITS payments separate from the electricity charges?
Where do I stand legally? I have informed EDF that my meter runs backwards sometimes - They arranged a date to fit a 'Stopped' meter but failed to turn up!
You can see why my head is hurting - now where's the paracetamol.

Welcome to the forum.

May I suggest you read post #54 above.

FITs are completely divorced from your electricity charges.

For every kWh you generate you get the going rate of FIT(44p) and for half(50%) that of generated total you get a further 3.1p.

The important point to note in relation to your question is those monies( the FIT + 3.1p) can be from any company with whom you are registered. i.e. if BG were supplying your electricity you could be claiming the subsidies from, say, E-On.

You get that paid regardless of using 2,000kWh per year in your house or 20,000kWh.

In addition you can use as much of the generated electricity in your house as you wish or are able to consume.

As explained in post #54 the turning back of your meter means that you are escaping payment for the electricty you have actually consumed.

I don't have PV panels. If I found a way to turn back my meter say 2,000kWh each year, I would clearly be defrauding my electricity company in that I would not be paying for electricity supplied.

Your meter being turned back is achieving exactly the same effect - albeit it is obviously not fraud.

trekker2002

I have just had an electricity bill so went to check my meter reading and discovered that the meter is running backwards. This is despite the company fitting a new meter in June after the installation of my PV system in May. The fault lies, EDF tell me, with the meter which should have a 'backstop' feature which prevents it running backwards and they will be coming to fit another meter. Needless to say I am going to keep a very very close eye on the meter reading from now on to ensure that it runs properly.

sydbarrett

Meters are sometimes faulty - very rare and irrelevant to this discussion. However, old electricity meters (many spinny disc ones) wind backwards when the house is generating more electricity than it is consuming at any particular moment.

This thread is funny. The British typically ooze jeolousy when they see someone else getting a benefit while others run around scared stiff that they are doing something that might be slightly 'wrong' (god forbid, 'illegal'! - any of you ever photocopied/scanned a page out of a book without the author's and/or publisher's permission and then given that photocopy to someone else? - you have infringed on copyright laws - bang, go to prison, do not pass go)).

If you have PV installed by an MCS installer in a domestic dwelling and are lucky enough to have an older meter that runs backwards then congratulations, providing your electricity provider was told about the install (by you and/or your installer). When you told your electricity provider about your PV you may or may not have ticked the box that asks if your meter runs backwards or not. However, shouldn't they know!? Why are they asking you? Surely it is them that should come and check whether it runs backwards or not. The householder does not 'own' the meter; the electricity provider does. The responsibility is on them.

If you have a 'standard' household with PV, most of the time your electricity meter will have a daily forward increase. Sure, those who have a big PV plant and whose meter goes backwards month after month should be sorted out but most domestic situations are not like that.

The fact is that, in most cases, any surplus electricity generated will simply go to powering your neighbours or local businesses. It is a nonsense to say that the DNO has to 'store' and then 'release' that extra electricity. This would be very rare. The DNO simply has to throw less coal/gas/nuclear/etc 'onto the fire' - and that is why the FIT exists - to help reduce our non-renewable energy consumption, a very important massive global and national issue.

What is a bit crooked is that a household is paid approx 3p to sell and approx 13p to buy. That is a big spread! Of course, most are not complaining too much because of the FIT, which is the only thing that makes the whole thing cost effective.

Incidentally, I do not believe the FIT payment comes from the government; it comes from the energy suppliers. Therefore, yes, energy prices are hiked in order to pay the FITs (obviously the energy suppliers have to make oodles of profit every year, don't they?). You are either in the boat or out of it. If you are not generating then you are subsidising those that are. Consider it a non-generation tax; tough titties. Google 'who pays for the fits'.

I note in the latest Which? rag that most meters will be replaced with smart meters over the next few years and that this is a good thing that can help save money. Well, not for those with PV and backwards-capable meters it won't!

For those of you with a meter that occasionally runs backwards when you are generating more than you are using at that particular moment, then keep very quiet and resist having the meter changed for as long as you can. You do not own it, most of you have no electrical qualifications and nor are you responsible for the meter (other than not being allowed to tamper with it) so how is it reasonable that you are responsible for what it does or even know what it does?

Brummie71

Cardew wrote: »

The important point to note in relation to your question is those monies( the FIT + 3.1p) can be from any company with whom you are registered. i.e. if BG were supplying your electricity you could be claiming the subsidies from, say, E-On.

Not quite true.

The mandatory 'FIT suppliers' (essentially the big six) are all required to pay FITs to their own import customers, to off-grid customers and to those who import electricity from non-FIT companies (the smaller suppliers).

It is up to them whether they choose to take on customers from other mandatory suppliers. Some do, some don't. I don't think EOn do, for example (but prepared to be proved wrong on that one).

oldtrianle

I have enjoyed my meter going back for the whole of the summer, the electric company Npower cannot get their head round this and have finally changed my meter last week.

The day before it was changed, they again asked me for a reading not remembering that I had PV panels and that they are changing the meter..

When my Photovolvic panels where fitted I had to tell them my meter was going back, Npower will have to advise me what my bill will be... as my meter has gone back over a year.... I think I will have some arguments if they try and guess my bill.

I would strongly recommend anyone who has a south facing or near south facing property that has no obstructions to get these, its the best investment I have ever made.

A word of advise...... look into what panels you are getting, the company, and that you have no trees etc that will block the sunlight.

dobbo

oldtrianle wrote: »

I would strongly recommend anyone who has a south facing or near south facing property that has no obstructions to get these, its the best investment I have ever made.

QUOTE]

As an investment, if you do have a suitable roof, it's an absolute no-brainer. I'm coming up to retirement and if I could only invest my pension pot in twenty or thirty installations I'd be a happy man.
Regarding the meter spinning backwards, all you can do is answer the FIT application form honestly, the question being "Has your meter gone backwards since installing PV?" . The MCS approved installer had just finished installing the system and I was filling in the form, the answer was 'NO'. What more can I do?
Btw, it was dark by the time it was installed and commisioned

judas_priest

some good posts on this subject , i to have had a 2.52 pv system fitted two months ago,

i am with scottish power and checked the meter to see if it was going backwards when my pvs went live , it was not.

i have just checked the meter again and its around a 100 units lower than two months ago

I have been talking to a few people who live near me ,who have pv systems, and they have said that they have gone and bought electric fires and radiators to make there meters go forward using the excess

would this be illegal if we done this ?

jennifernil

We had a 4kwp system installed 13 days ago, we are with EDF for both power and FIT. The paperwork was submitted immediately but takes a while to get sorted. We noticed that there was no question on the form regarding whether our meter went backwards.

The last 10 days have been dull, so not much generated. We had 2 very good days, and OH looked at the meter to see what was happening. It has not gone backwards in total on any single day, but was going back very slowly when the panels were pushing out 3.5kw.

In summer, particularly when we are away, it would surely go back quite a lot. The meter is 23/24 years old, so probably due for replacement anyway. Don't want any problems with billing as we have also recently had a cull on appliances and reduced our usage anyway, so think we will point out the age of the meter to EDF and leave the ball in their court.

richardcw

My import meter behaved normally until I had a PV system fitted on 2 Mar. Then, having heard of these problems, I noticed that mine was still increasing when I was generating enough to export!
I contacted my electricity supplier, who replied with this polite reply on 2 Apr:

[FONT=&quot] I can confirm that there is an issue with Siemens S2A-100 and S2A-200 models. The design of these meters predate FiT and they are unable to deal with microgeneration. They are fitted with an anti theft device that records any electricity going back in to the grid as electricity used by the customer. Clearly, this is not the case. We have only recently been made aware of this issue (following contact from another customer). [/FONT]

The problem meter was replaced this morning and the problem has now been solved :j

Orffyreus

I have a 2.45KW system and having spoken to my installer and several other people within the industry have been told that I have no obligation to tell my supplier about a meter that runs backwards. I may have a moral obligation but that is for each individual to decide and not what this forum is for.

Basically I have to do nothing other than supply a correct meter reading when requested. Periodically my supply meter will be read by a third party company on behalf of my supplier.

The facts are:

My installer notified my DNO that there was now a PV installation at my property that was connected to my supply meter and supplied them with the MPAN meter serial number and type.

The DNO has an obligation to notify my supplier of the installation. I presume they have.

In my case, my supplier is also my FITS licensee, so I know I have.

Either way, my supplier is aware of my installation and meter type.

I supply meter readings (often) and my meter has been read by the third party company.

I still have my old meter, it reads the same today as it did on February 8th.

This could mean that I only use electricity that I generate, or it could also mean that my meter goes forwards and backwards.

I will wait and see what my supplier intends to do but I would be very reluctant to settle an estimated bill when I am only obliged to pay for the amount of electricity used as shown on my calibrated tamper proof analogue meter.

renewable-energy-resource.net/meterrunsbackwards.html