Electricity meter going backwards after installing Solar PV

roj47

I am 70% of the way through a refurbishment and now have the PV install in.

For the last 3 weeks the meter has run backwards, but my thinking is in 4 weeks' time the family (5 of us) and of course friends and extended family visiting during the day will well and truly pump the meter back up.

3 computers, 6 TVs, washing machine etc etc etc... I am assuming will get the meter back running forwards and play catch up.

With some careful monitoring and purposefully leaving lights on (energy efficient), surely the balancing act can be made and not against the unwritten legality of it all?

Cheers

magellan

Rather as per the earlier comments on this thread...

So I've just had solar PV installed ( delighted with the install, btw ) and found my meter running backwards.

I'm with a small Electricity/Gas supply company called Ovo Energy. I guess its a lean, mean startup company with few subscribers at present - less than the 50,000 needed as I understand it for them to have compulsorily registered to participate in FITS. So they don't. I had to go elsewhere for FITS. I went with E-ON. Initially I phoned N-Power, but they never got around to sending me a form.. a complete waste of time.

Back to the meter...
Being an Honest chap - keen even, I'd say, to ensure I stay on the right side of the law - I phone Ovo and tell them my meter is running backwards.
They say they'll have to replace the meter and will charge me half of the £92 or so it'll cost them.
I baulked at this, as I believe others will fit for free. My meter dates back to the 70's and was last inspected in 1988.
I contact OfGEM's FITS team and ask them for advice. They say 'we can't help'. Useless.
I register and post a message on a website called ConsumerChoice. They say 'Hmm, we've never heard of this. Well look into it and get back to you'. But no further response in 2 weeks, so another waste of time.

I've come to the conclusion that it really is a free-for-all as to what deal you manage to get from your electricity supplier regarding a replacement meter. It's not really the 'pay half the cost' fee I'm irritated by, even though my meter is so old its well due for replacement and as such why should I bear any of the cost - it's the lack of consistency across suppliers.

Hoping this helps other searching for advice. Magellan.

Cardew

I would just email OVO and tell them the meter is running backwards and you will not pay anything toward having it replaced. Ball is in then in their court.

Doc_N

Cardew wrote: »

I would just email OVO and tell them the meter is running backwards and you will not pay anything toward having it replaced. Ball is in then in their court.

Absolutely!

Andy_WSM

Cardew wrote: »

I would just email OVO and tell them the meter is running backwards and you will not pay anything toward having it replaced. Ball is in then in their court.

Got to agree with Cardew. You're not fiddling the meter and as long as you declare that you have solar and the meter is running backwards it is up to them to do something about it.

Put it in WRITING though and send recorded delivery, so if a dispute occurs in the future you can prove you notified them.

I am about to have solar commissioned and wish I had an old meter, but alas, it was changed a couple of years ago to a digital meter

HalloweenJack

makes sure its not a siemans meter - they have issues as well - double charging though so be careful

ClaimYourEnergy

I have to disagree with some of the posters in this post and here is why:

Having a meter that runs backwards is, in my opionion, probably the most accurate way of truly tracking what is used and fed back to the supplier. To say that the owner of a PV system should have a meter replaced that is runing backwards, is, unfair at best, and "extortion" by the electricity supplier at worst. Here's why ...

If a meter goes backwards (because the PV systems are generating more than a person is currently using), then the backward meter "stores" what the panels have produced for the owner. However, in the course of the same day, it is more than likely going to be used and the meter move forward again. The generated/used energy balances itself out and the PV owner gets to keep and use the energy they have created in a day.

Now, let's assume the electricity board comes in a fits a new meter that is adjusted to not go backwards. The moment the PV panels produce excess energy, the electricty board is gaining all that energy, which, the moment your meter starts to move forward again, they will charge their going rate for it. Just because you did not use the energy YOU produced the same second it was produced, they charge you the full cost of the unit after paying you only 3.1 p for passing it onto them! (And this only half the time.) By stopping your meter from accurately recording your excess on the same meter you then use to acquire electricity a few minutes later, you get charged the huge difference between the export tariff and your usage tariff! When I found this out, I immediately complained to the energy provider and explained that this was totally unfair and I did not agree with this.

Now, let me quickly add, I am not condoning anything sinister here or illegal in my opinion. However, having a dial that goes a few units backards, only to be used a little later in the same day should not be considered theft at all, but a good and proper use of the energy that the panels are providing. Just because the electricty board are acting as the storage for a few minutes (or even days say in the course of the change of weather and seasons), it should not give them the right to charge you (the generator) to use the energy you created! The system copes just as easily taking in the energy as it does returning it and should not be any reason to charge for it.

There is a really simple solution to the Export Tariff situation and that is to provide meters that run backwards and check the readings every quarter or better still, every year! As this will take into account seasonal changes and allow a careful user to use the energy they created wisely. At the end of the year, if the meter reads negative (and the owner has created more energy than they used), then the electricty supplier can pay the 3.1 p per unit as agreed, which they can sell to anybody else that wants it for a profit. Both sides happy! On the other hand, if the meter reads positive (where the panel owner has used more energy than they have created), then they should pay what they owe at the normal rate. NB: This can even be estimated or kept on top of over the course of months if the supplier really wanted to be funny about it. However, I would even pay a few hundred quid up front to the supplier to keep them happy, as long as they paid back what I did not use at the end of the term.

I have already contacted my own electricty supplier and said as much - and while I have currently opted in for the Export Tariff, I said I would happily ignore this "benefit" until I knew whether I had or had not generated enough energy to qualify for it. What I strongly disagree with, is the electricity suppliers offering to alter my meter for the following reasons:-

These were all said to me when I asked about this question:

1) I would benefit from a stopped meter because I would avoid estimated bills.

2) The current meter would have problems with the "polarity".

The bottom line is, if I had fiddled with the meter and stopped it from running forwards, you can guarantee they would be on me like a ton of bricks ... and rightly so! However, now that the "dials have turned" (as it were), what a nerve they have to try to stop it from running in the opposite direction. Has their super accurate system suddenly developed a fault that needs addressing. No! They realise that owners that create this electricty will and should greatly reduce their reliance on the electricity supplier. A "quick fix" for them is to have a kind of "stealth tax" system that appears to offer a reward by the way of an Export Tariff based upon an estimated percentage of your time at home at the price of charging you for the energy you just produced for free at their normal cost!

I left it with the supplier saying that I believe over the course of a year I do not believe my system will generate enough energy to make the meter move forward in that time, even if it might move forward occassionally on a very sunny day. I also said if they felt I was being unfair, to NOT supply me the additional Export Tariff, even though I have currently applied for it. The bottom line is, I do NOT want to be unfair to my supplier by taking a payment that I have not earned, BUT, in the same token, I do not expect to pay full price for some energy that I had just produced for free only a few minutes earlier.

When "threatened" with legal action, I even said that I will cross that bridge when it comes to it because I truly believe they are not giving me a fair deal. I was told to contact the Energy Trust Organisation (I think that's what they were called) and Ofgem. I spoke to someone of the first group and the chap there agreed with my calculations and said that while the supplier had no legal right to change the meter, that they could "insist". I replied that I could also "insist" that they do NOT. I have left a message with Ofgem, but have not had a reply to date.

I would even go as far to say that the electricity suppliers are being unfair in their dealings in this situation and taking advantage of those who have not looked closer at this. And I actually find it truly offensive that a supplier has the audacity to even try to take money from us in this way and hope that someone in higher authority will address this aweful injustice. I am prepared to contact my MP and the papers about this if my supplier push it further.

Think of the absurdities of trying to use the energy as you generate it to avoid extra expense: By trying to save money by using the electricty I generate as it comes in, I am more likely to use it when its the most expensive for the supplier to pass on and for me to buy - during the daytime hours. However, if the electricity board allow a simple storage for a few hours (by a backward meter), then I can use the stored electricity later in the evening, and potentially when the supplier can charge less. So, basically, by not allowing a backward meter, the electricty suppliers will channel PV owners to use energy at the most expensive time, which suppliers could have taken in (via export) and use elsewhere as demanded, and then give the energy back to the PV owner at a potentially cheaper rate later on in the day.

The bottom line is, a backward meter should never be considered ILLEGAL. Think about this logically. How can it be? On the other hand, stoppng a meter from running backwards should definitely be considered illegal and I hope someone can draw this to the attention of the right people who can force the energy providers to be more fair in their dealing swith people who are generating their own power.

Simply put ... Claim Your Energy!

Cardew

This is a ' wind-up' I assume!

grahamc2003

Cardew wrote: »

This is a ' wind-up' I assume!

I replied on the other thread where this was posted (why oh why do people post the same thing in numerous places - unless of course it IS a wind up)?

Anyhow, I don't think solar enthusasts are rewarded enough for their efforts. Rather than allowing a backward spinning meter as Claimyourenergy suggests, I think it only fair if the meters were fixed so they only could go backwards, and never forwards when electiricty was used. That would ensure a little extra cash refund every quarter. Win win, everyone gains.

ClaimYourEnergy

Hi All,

(Also posted in other thread.) PLEASE ONLY RESPOND IN THE OTHER THREAD TO REDUCE DUPLICATION.

Backward Meters With PV Panles (Who's The Thief?)

http:// forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=3388264 (Be sure to remove the spaces to make link work if copied.)

No, this is NOT a wind up. Have I missed something?


The Generate Tariff is NOT the same thing as the Export Tariff. The government cover the 43.3 p per KWH for the energy you produce and replaces the government grant they used to give to help encourage people to invest in greener energy. That's how I understand it. What has it got to do with the energy you are producing?


When the tariffs end, do you still want to be paying for energy that you just produced for free at the cost that the energy supplier charges - because you did not use it the very second you produced it? That is what a stopped meter does!

I am NOT saying forgo the Generation Tariff, but we are not being fairly treated for the way we generate energy with PV panels.

Please ask me questions or explain to me why you think having a "stopped" meter rather than one that goes backwards is a fair deal?


CYE