Without a paddle... support for anyone starting a DMP in 2010 (part2)

mikon

Mamajojo and everyone else who is being or feels that their creditors or harassing them or behaving in a threatening manner here is some legislation that can quoted to the creditors.

Quote this an I am sure they will take note.

SECTION 40 OF THE ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE ACT

"S40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.
(1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract he -
(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or house hold to alarm, distress or humiliation;
(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
(c) falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or
(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character, or purporting to have some official character which he know it has not.
Both the Office of Fair Trading and trade associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors.

Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

"Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note that "anything done by a person which is reasonable" when trying to recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment."
"Putting pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive."
Contacting you too frequently
Pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt
Using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling you when your debt has been passed to another company
Pressurising you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot afford
Making threatening gestures or statements
Ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money
Trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party about your debts such as a neighbour or your family.
"Those contacting debtors must not be deceitful by misrepresenting their authority and/or the correct legal position."
This includes:
Claiming to work for the court or be a bailiff
Implying action can be taken that is not legally possible such as implying they could take your property
Using a business name or logo that implies they are a government body
Implying that court action has been taken against you when it hasn’t
Implying not paying your debt is a criminal offence
Threatening to take court action in England if you live in Scotland or the other way round.
"It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear, inaccurate or misleading manner."
This includes:
Letters that look like court claims
Not making it clear who the company is or what their role is
Unhelpful legal language
Not giving balance statements about the debt when asked
Contacting you at unreasonable times even when asked not to
Asking you to contact them on premium rate phone numbers.

"Those visiting debtors must not act in an unclear or threatening manner."

This includes:

Collectors should explain the reason for any visit and give you notice of the time and date they will call
They shouldn’t visit if they know you are ill or vulnerable and if they find you are unwell or distressed they should leave
They should not come in if you do not want them to and should leave when you ask them to
They shouldn’t visit you at work or somewhere like a hospital.
"Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair."
Examples include:
Sending letters addressed to "the occupier" or discussing the debt with someone without knowing if they are you
Refusing to deal with an adviser acting on your behalf
Not accepting reasonable offers or passing on payments you make
Refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt.
"Charges Should Not Be Levied Unfairly"
Examples include:
Claiming collection costs when the original credit agreement didn’t allow this to happen and making you think you are legally liable for the costs
Not putting the specific amounts that can be added for collection costs in the original credit agreement
Adding Unreasonable Charges.

How To Deal With Harassment By Your Creditors

The first step is to write to a creditor and outline your concerns about the company’s behaviour. Inform them that you are familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and ask that the creditor takes steps to avoid similar occurrences in the future. Tell your creditors how you would prefer to be contacted and ask that they confirm their agreement to this. A letter at this stage may avoid the need to take further action against the company.
Tell them you are aware of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and that you will consider making a complaint about their behaviour under the guidance.
It is usually difficult to persuade the police to prosecute in cases of harassment unless a more serious offence such as violence, fraud or blackmail is also involved. Normally complaints should be made to the trading standards/consumer protection department at your local council. They should investigate whether an offence has been committed and whether prosecution is appropriate. The penalty is a fine of up to £5,000 in the Magistrates Court. Also a conviction is likely to provide evidence that the creditor is no longer a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a consumer credit licence.
If Trading Standards will not act it may be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading directly. The address is at the end of the factsheet. The OFT does not usually take up individual complaints but their Debt Collection Enforcement Team collects information that can be used to take action against creditors who can lose their consumer credit licence.
The creditor may be a member of a trade association with a code of practice. You could find out if your creditor is a member of a trade association and write to them with your complaint. A code of practice is not legally enforceable but the association may take some action against their members.
Other Options
Another alternative is for you to pursue your own prosecution in the Magistrates Court. This could involve considerable cost so you need to obtain proper legal advice first.
BT have a new service called "Choose to Refuse" which might help if you are getting a lot of calls from an unpleasant creditor. You have to key in a pin number after a call. The caller will then get an automated message if you don’t wish to take their call when they ring. The cost of the service is £8.00 per quarter.
If you receive a telephone service from another provider, contact them and ask if they have a similar service.
You could refer to the Malicious Communications Act 1988. This deals with the sending of letters or articles for the purpose of causing "distress or anxiety". A person found guilty can be fined in the Magistrates Court. To prosecute successfully, the letter or article sent would have to convey
a message which is indecent or grossly offensive,
A threat; or
Information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender.
The Criminal Justice Act & Public Order Act 1994 Section 4a makes it a criminal offence to cause "Harassment, alarm or distress" with intent by using "threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour". This can only be an offence if it happens in a public place not in your own home. The police would need to be contacted and prosecute for this offence.
The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a criminal offence to harass people and put "people in fear of violence". The harassment must happen on at least 2 separate occasions. The police would have to agree to prosecute for this offence.


Sorry for the long post but I thought it would be useful to everyone on this forum.

mikon

Here is the link to the Debt Collection Guidance Booklet that Creditors must adhere to.

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft664.pdf


You can tell I have a life on a Saturday Night. But I just want to assist everyone out there.

REgards

mamajojo

tedsd wrote: »

Hi Mama,

glad you're ok, lovely to see you on here but understand you're busy. I work on line quite often so it's that bit easier for me to have a peek on here, unless of course people are noseying over my shoulder...

Well the hols are here and am happy to say we are managing to fill them within the budget. Found a couple of playschemes which take age up to 16 years and are really cheap, one week dance and the 2nd week is hair and beauty... works out well as I need the childcare so that I can work and the girls are busy too. We're also visiting relatives, boy have I become sociable since the DMP! and we have booked a few nights in £19 travelodge rooms...that plus lots of sleep overs/museums, half price Alton Towers vouchers and we should get through!! We're doing sleep over swaps with other parents so that it doesn't just fall onto one of us...so the girls get a variety of houses!! There was a good website on the UK hol thread a while back which may help too...www.localtreasures.co.uk !

Yes, my DMP started 1st July so my payment has now gone :j, enjoying the peace and quiet at the moment, it's bliss to be able to pick up the phone, can't believe how stressful those first few months were...

Gosh, your job feels very real now you are going in to prepare! Hope you manage to juggle that with the children successfully over the Summer.

HSBC sound dreadful, hate the daily calls.... it's that kind of thing which pushes me towards CCAs... I do wonder if there's any harm in checking to see if all mine are enforcable or not, am sure 8 of them won't be..then again I think I will leave it until a creditor starts playing unfair...would it wind them up to ask whilst we're on DMPs?

Wondering how your SIL is going on?... also remembered you managed to get a v cheap hol, hope you are looking forward to getting away and have a great time... :beer:
Ooops, this post is so long it's almost a dissertation!

Have a good weekend,

Ted xx

Hi Ted
Hope your Sunday goes well - sorry didn't reply yesterday managed to post to Mikon then dd thre a spanner in the works, well a vomitary tonsilitus fever attack again - came out of nowhere so had to be nurse mama for the rest of the evening...night...she's still sleeping now.

Your playschemes sound amazing, lucky girls! Quite like to join them too! There are no play schemes round here ....the summer childcare there is is so very expensive and a nightmare for working parents. You've got the holidays well sorted and it sounds like you and dds are going to have a great time and the dmp isn't going to stop you! The bargain treats feel so much better than then ones before dmp too - especially jealous of the towers - ride those rides for me!
Feel the same about the enforcibility - think pretty much all of mine will be UE but like you say don't want to cause upset and wind them up, but would they even notice with their communication skills?

Thanks for asking about SIL - from it looking bad its turned around - it was a rare form of non-invasive cancer - to the extent she doesn't need chemo even. They've said that the lymph traces were stray cells from the mastectomy so she's on to waiting for reconstructive surgery which is quite a long waiting list.

Holiday is next weekend, dh's overtime came through just in time to pay for the last bit of it we've really struggled slashing food budget, no clothes, borrowing of the car tax savings etc but I think we need it although it'll be beach and nothing else - rain or shine! - driving down to Cornwall on Friday night and will be driving according to the rev counter and free wheeling down the hills!

Enjoy that fear free phone picking up - is it fear free yet? I'd forgotten , well not forgotten but got used to my heart not racing when the phone gave a particular ring ... thanks hsbc for reminding me - not. :mad:

Hope you got to the end of this without nodding off!

:Dx

mamajojo

Hi:Alovely peeps!
Hope you have a great dmp care free Sunday and hope you've got some sunshine!
Wonder what it's doing with you ljm(weather wise!) what ever you have it comes to us next! As I was cleaning our lovely (Next dmp) vomit splattered rug you made me have a laugh thinking about you and your nice wooden furniture!
Thanks for you information posts Mikon - you are arming us well!
Take care all ! x

mamajojo

tedsd wrote: »

Hi Mikon, the other thing is that even if you prove it isn't enforceable they can still chase you for it but not take you to court... not sure I'm up to the chasing at the moment.

Someone let me know if I've got that bit wrong?

Ted

ps All, Aldi newsflash .... Surcare washing powder £1.50 per box...!

This bit is very interesting - so it would act as like a defence against court to know it it was enforcable or not :think: yay a thinking smiley!

Once again Ted you quote is so true especially for us dmp present givers!!!

eyeopener2

Hi guys

Just an update from me and some witterings.

I sent a letter to Santander today as they have still not stopped interest or charges and, as they have not aknowledged any of my letters, I sent it to the complaints department to see if that will work.

If they are not going to stop charges, fair enough, but I need to know to formulate some sort of plan as my payment s to them are half of what the charges are.

Will keep you informed of the progress on this one as everybody else including PDUK, have started behaving.

On another note, I was talking to my OH on Saturday as we were window shopping and she said that when all this came out, and she did make me leave our home for a short time, she thought our lives would be ruined, we wouldn't be able to provide for our son our anything. She said that, in fact, all the debt problems had brought us closer together and the fact that we had a certain amount of disposable income meant we had to really think what we had to do with it so it wasn't wasted. Our lives have changed for the better and we now think beyond money, beyond gadgets and stuff, beyond the latest thing and concentrate on what is important. Each other and our son.

If this mindset continues, and there is no reason why it shouldn't, I wonder what our lives will be like when the payments to CCCS are over and I/we are debt free.

That is something to look forward to.

E2

ps. When next months payment goes out on the 1st and is applied on the 25th I will have paid one debt off! Yeeeeeha!

Hopelessly_Hopeful

eyeopener2 wrote: »

Hi guys

Just an update from me and some witterings.

I sent a letter to Santander today as they have still not stopped interest or charges and, as they have not aknowledged any of my letters, I sent it to the complaints department to see if that will work.

If they are not going to stop charges, fair enough, but I need to know to formulate some sort of plan as my payment s to them are half of what the charges are.

Will keep you informed of the progress on this one as everybody else including PDUK, have started behaving.

On another note, I was talking to my OH on Saturday as we were window shopping and she said that when all this came out, and she did make me leave our home for a short time, she thought our lives would be ruined, we wouldn't be able to provide for our son our anything. She said that, in fact, all the debt problems had brought us closer together and the fact that we had a certain amount of disposable income meant we had to really think what we had to do with it so it wasn't wasted. Our lives have changed for the better and we now think beyond money, beyond gadgets and stuff, beyond the latest thing and concentrate on what is important. Each other and our son.

If this mindset continues, and there is no reason why it shouldn't, I wonder what our lives will be like when the payments to CCCS are over and I/we are debt free.

That is something to look forward to.

E2

ps. When next months payment goes out on the 1st and is applied on the 25th I will have paid one debt off! Yeeeeeha!

That's a very heart warming post E2. Go for it.

HHx

GibbsRule_No3

eyeopener2 wrote: »

Hi guys



ps. When next months payment goes out on the 1st and is applied on the 25th I will have paid one debt off! Yeeeeeha!

Hope you don't mind me asking, but I'm a bit confused. My payments with Pay Plan are pro rata, so the £200.00 debt to John Lewis will take as long as the £9000.00 with Barclaycard so how is one of yours finished, do CCCS not do pro rata payments? Also if one debt is over do CCCS/Pay Plan not just use that money to pay the other debtors?

Barclaycard still charge me interest and I agree with you it would be nice to have it stopped, since they charge £50.00 a month of the £150.00 Pay Plan pay them.

When they are all paid off, it will be nice to know that £400 + a month will be mine and I could not imagine needing ccs or loans if I had that extra a month to put by for holidays, clothes, gadgets etc.

Still think that in away we are the lucky ones and there must be millions out there worrying themselves silly about what to do with their debts.

mikon

Hi everyone

Quite day here in Mikon Land. After a busy weekend I have decided to have a rest and relax tonight with a glass of Red Wine and I am loving it.

I hope everyone out there is relaxing.

Regards

ljm23k

Excuse the silly title, but the camping was worse than I could have imagined. A group of "rowdy youths" somehow managed to get booked onto the forest park campsite and they drank and yelled till the birds started (farm birds at the rare breeds farm:eek: !!!!-a-doodle-do etc etc) Its a bit easier to sleep to nature sounds so we managed to get a couple of hours until the "rowdy youths" decided it was time to vomit, really loudly into the hedge between them and us, at 6.55 am:eek::eek: We packed up and went home. After a bath, my 6 yr old son lay down on the sofa and slept for 4 hours, the 4 yr old for 2 hours, while I felt like roadkill:eek::eek::eek:

NEVER AGAIN!

Mikon I gpt my latest statement from Next and all is still going to plan, payment accepted and no interest.

Mama Its raining here now so look out for that tomorrow where you are!

Still haven't sent back my review info but will do it tomorrow. I have had a small increase in tax credits and child benefit but my youngest will be school age from September so I have to add him into the homeschool budget. I thought I could get away without getting him a "proper" maths curriculum and just stick to the hands on stuff for a while but the jammy little sod spontaneously learned how to add and subtract 1, 2 and 3 up to 5 in his head! Doesn't sound like much but he's only 4 and no one taught him, he just started with "if I eat 2 of these 5 chips, I'll have 3 left" so we gave him a few more "if daddy, ds1 and dd1 go to the cinema, how many people are left at home?" etc and he can do it! So thats another £50 for his maths books....

Will update you all on the review ASAP