Learn to control money but do not allow it to control you

thriftyscotslass

Gosh so much to think about and ponder

Firewalker wrote: »

Examining our basic assumptions helps us grow and develop – otherwise we easily end up ‘doing the same thing and getting the same result’.

The last two years have been a time of amazing growth for me and I have come to understand I am a "repeater". Even if I "want" something to change, I will repeat the same behaviours over & over; make the same mistakes over & over but do you know what, I have also learnt that when the hard-fought and hard-earned change is finally made I never repeat that behaviour or make that mistake again - amazing.

Firewalker wrote: »

Every time one of us feels hurt by something that has been said we need to ask the question ‘is it what was said or is it where I am’.

I have also learnt that whenever I am triggered to respond emotionally to an issue or situation, that issue / situation warrants further investigation. The bigger the emotional response the more the situation needs looked at and thought about - yes it may be hormones or biochemical but it may also have deep roots in your past experiences.

thriftyscotslass

cherisong wrote: »

I know that I have a bad relationship with money but more from the point of view of always believing that I will struggle unless I have X amount of pounds left at the end of the month. This is because I remember too well sitting in the dark with no food waiting for My Dad to arrive home on payday. I never spend money on myself but I have, time and again, bailed other people out - starting at the age of 16 with my Mum and continuing on. I think you just made me realise that when you said you "spend like its going out of fashion but never on yourself". Well I dont spend (period) and then use all my hard earned savings to help others out but never seem to get it back. What is that all about? I shall ponder how to turn this around and how to deal with making sure that I start spending on me. Thanks

Ditto Cheri

I too have a bad relationship with money that stems from my childhood - there was never enough money for essentials like food, heat and clothes. I remember being hungry, cold and walking about with holes in my shoes. My mother lived in fear and would share that fear with us kids - don't know what she thought a 10 year old could do about Dad drinking all the money, having a drawer full of unpaid bills and a re-mortgaged house.

Like you I became a "child" caretaker that has transferred into adult life . I obsessively look after money making sure that we (dh,ds, dd) are "safe", I fear not being able to pay the mortgage (and this is a huge beast of a fear), and I never spend money on myself - ever. I always have to have justifcation to spend money eg my job meant that I was allowed to buy clothes, have my hair done; I was allowed to have a holiday because my family would benefit. Since I have become a carer I haven't bought any clothes, my hair hasn't been cut, nor have we been on holiday - this is part of my money assumptions that I am working through - it is like an enormous onion that is being peeled one layer at a time.

Oops, sorry FW, have rambled on a bit but that is good - deep, deep emotions and fears are finding their way into words.

Right ho - a glass of white wine is calling me, take care all, Thriftyxxx

Firewalker

claudiac wrote: »

Since reading the Secret it has reinforced the thought, so now I am looking at the actual nuts and bolts of what I want from life, how to get it etc. Makes my head hurt but I am so sure that we will get there, with a little help from you and all the other good people here.
I was about to delete this post before I posted it but I think the time has come for me to say something sensible ( it makes sense to me!)

Claudiac, thank for your post; well said. One thing that really made me think is the 'spending like there is no tomorrow' but not on your self. This touched Cheri as well.

There are three matter here that I want to discuss - partly here but the big articles will have to be on the blog. First, it doesn't matter how bad one's financial situation is they simply have to spend something on themselves - you are your main asset and should look after it; all aspects of it. Second, ways to do this - to stop feeling guilty and show your-self that you are worth it form time to time. And third is about spending on others and helping other financially.

Look after self, keep well and we will all get there. As to the support - well I already talked about this one.

Firewalker

Firewalker

cherisong wrote: »

I know that I have a bad relationship with money but more from the point of view of always believing that I will struggle unless I have X amount of pounds left at the end of the month. This is because I remember too well sitting in the dark with no food waiting for My Dad to arrive home on payday. I never spend money on myself but I have, time and again, bailed other people out - starting at the age of 16 with my Mum and continuing on. I think you just made me realise that when you said you "spend like its going out of fashion but never on yourself". Well I dont spend (period) and then use all my hard earned savings to help others out but never seem to get it back. What is that all about? I shall ponder how to turn this around and how to deal with making sure that I start spending on me. Thanks

When I was thinking about different relationships with money (with friend and co-author) one of them is the 'possessive' relationship. It usually is linked to relatively poor background and in this case people end up keeping their money; being very worried about spending anything and particualrly on themselves. Can I ask you Cheri, when you play monopoly do you hold on to the wodge of paper money? Do you like the feeling of cash? Do you keep your new clothes for sometime before you wear them?

There are two main problems with having such relationship with money: first, it doesn't matter how much one has it is likely never to be enough (this is the insecurity) and second one keeps it but is very unlikely to invest it.

Cheri, I am not saying that your relationship si like this - my friends is and we had to start talking about it for her to realise. She is a fairly wealth woman by now btw but she is still quite insecure about money.

Firewalker

MrsMoo2U

Hmm............ I am ashamed to say that I hate monopoloy......... I hardly ever play it. When I do I always end up with my money and hardly any property. Oh dear....... I guess that shows that I am very unlikely to invest it. You are right that I dont invest. I wouldn't say that I never have enough though. In fact my mantra is I have more than enough for my needs! As long as I can pay my bills, eat and keep warm, then I am usually happy. Anything over and above this I see as a luxury. I guess I see my investment as when I am bailing out other people. I am investing in people rather than me if you see what I mean. It is something that I have recently become aware of and I have been trying to change this. After all, giving people money does not help them to learn how to manage it. I just hate to see people in need.
Thanks for making me think more deeply about this. Thrifty - you have also given me food for thought.

gilligansyle

A few interesting strands on here at the moment.

Regarding the debate issue, in my previous job I was frequently criticised for expressing an opinion. My view was always that I may not agree with your opinion, but I will fight for your right to express it'; I could never understand the 'if you're not with us, you're agin us' attitude.Generally it was against the 'touchy feely' style of management, or a criticism of tabloid press and the people who assume that the press are always right.

Money; I never had any debts, other than mortgage until meeting both my exes. The first was a gambler, and when he left me, he also left me in debt to the tune of 3 times my annual salary. It took years to crawl out of that hole, and just as I clambered to the top, it started again. This time, not a gambler but a drinker, so I borrowed to keep our heads above water, without thinking of the consequences. Now, I am managing my money OK, but there is a little part of me that begrudges spending money; I can see an amount in savings, and don't want to touch it.

Karmacat

Wow. Thanks to everyone for posting - makes me think. A lot.

Triciaxx

claudiac wrote: »

Lucky for me that my OH is much more sensible with money, pity it has taken so long but we have finally realized that I have the great ideas for making it and he is the one who must control it,(I can spend like it's going out of fashion, though usually not on myself!) so now we are planning a different way forward than I ever could have thought a year ago.
I have an internal 'mantra' in which I tell myself 'something will turn up' and to be honest it usually does.Does that make me a natural optimist? Since reading the Secret it has reinforced the thought, so now I am looking at the actual nuts and bolts of what I want from life, how to get it etc. Makes my head hurt but I am so sure that we will get there, with a little help from you and all the other good people here.
I was about to delete this post before I posted it but I think the time has come for me to say something sensible ( it makes sense to me!)

Claudiac : I'm so glad you didn't delete your post. :T As we are part of a community and there are lots of folk out there lurking and feeling too shy to post, you are certainly speaking for some of them who will recognise your situation.

I really don't think it is an ideal situation where one person is the sole contributor to the welfare of the home. Your partnership where you can make money and OH manages it is a great situation IMO. So don't feel guilty about your weaknesses - celebrate your strengths!

(Hastily adding that I know some people have to be in charge of everything because of circumstances beyond their control.)

thriftyscotslass wrote: »

Gosh so much to think about and ponder
The last two years have been a time of amazing growth for me and I have come to understand I am a "repeater". Even if I "want" something to change, I will repeat the same behaviours over & over; make the same mistakes over & over but do you know what, I have also learnt that when the hard-fought and hard-earned change is finally made I never repeat that behaviour or make that mistake again - amazing.

I have also learnt that whenever I am triggered to respond emotionally to an issue or situation, that issue / situation warrants further investigation. The bigger the emotional response the more the situation needs looked at and thought about - yes it may be hormones or biochemical but it may also have deep roots in your past experiences.

Thrifty : I wonder if your 'hard-fought and hard-earned change' comes when the time is right and the result is so much more important to you. Does that make any sense?

Also, the 'hormones or biochemical' part of you is inseparable from any other part of you - looking at things holistically.

Cheri : Another Monopoly hater here. Not so much for the dislike of risk but because I've seen some games go very vicious. :eek::eek: and I don't like that sort of conflict.

FW : Sorry for the hijack; I'm really enjoying this debate - It has come at just the right time for me as I had my (possibly thousandth :cool:) mini light bulb moment a few days ago while out walking.

Firewalker

Triciaxx wrote: »

FW : Sorry for the hijack; I'm really enjoying this debate - It has come at just the right time for me as I had my (possibly thousandth :cool:) mini light bulb moment a few days ago while out walking.

Tricia, I am enjoying this very much as well. In fact I have been getting ready to do for a run for three hours now; but instead have been reading and re-reading what is happening here.

Main thing: a discussion forum cannot be hijacked it can be immensely enriched.

Firewalker

Firewalker

I refused to play Monopoly for ages - in fact I didn't play for about 15 years. Now LB likes playing and everytime we see my friend and co-author the four of us - Friend, LB, OH and I play. It can be enjoyable but the main thing for me is observing (it is me, after all; given the choice to participate or observe I opt for the latter) fundamentally different approaches to finance management. And, yes, I believe that these approaches and assumptions do seep into the game just like they affect our life.

For instance, as I already mentioned, it is funny seeing Friend and LB with big stacks of money, keeping it, being cautious, thinking about the future too early in the game. Then there is OH who always has a long term strategy - he buys whole streets, builds houses, changes these to hotels quickly, buys the utilities...There are never big stacks of money infront of him but enough to cover what he needs to continue the game. When he needs more cash he re-mortgages properties; then he buys them back...But it is all very fluid, flexible, he borrows, invests, pays back and...guess who always wins. Yep, OH. And there is me trying to catch up with the game...but given enough time, and in true Lady Katherine style, I could become a true proficient.

Spending on self. I mentioned sometime ago that many people do not spend on themselves - particualrly people who have had or have debt (or some sort of deprivation). But this also comes from the basic belief that we pick somewhere during our lives that we are not worth it. Particular expressions of this belief are: ordering the cheapest thing on the menu (or 'ending up with the chicken') simply because it is the cheapest; going away and compromising experience to save a bit of money; not spending on any clothes, hair, massage...all the things that say to ourselves 'I love you, you are a precious person'. And the real biggy is staying with the wrong man. Gilli, I spent 7 years with an alcoholic (in my early twenties) who also didn't care about me...looking back I didn't think I deserve better; I didn't think that it is my choice. Then had to go through 'I am fine on my own and men are for fun and frollics only'. I was lucky to meet a man who is for fun (has been for twenty years now) but is also my best friend. Every time I look in his eyes I see how wonderful I am and I am grateful. But I still have/had a problem spending anything on me, or on what makes my heart sing. We both do.

Way out? We started an account known as the 'I am so worth it' account. We put there about 8% of our guaranteed monthly income. The condition is that this money has to be spend within the calender month - we usually spend about half of it but it is something. This is how we went to the theater last night and had dinner beforehand. It was great. But for the first time for a long time now I did not feel guilty or worried; nothing to spoil my enjoyment of the experience. Strictly speaking we were very frugal - we did not lose any of the joy on guilt and fear.

I probably should go for this run now.

Firewalker