Answer: "5 more years of Gordon Brown"

Spartacus_Mills

A._Badger wrote: »

You forgot Brown flushing away £7 billion by selling the UK's gold, Spartacus. That was an act of treachery.

The man isn't just 'an incompetent moron' - he's actively malign.

You are right, I did forget it. But thanks for reminding me and everyone here.

That act was verging on the criminally negligent.

StevieJ

abaxas wrote: »

I've corrected your errors for you. No need to thank me.

New Labour commies :rotfl:

ukcarper

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The NHS is people. The issue is the way that the staff are treated. Good staff are able still to emigrate to Oz quite easily and many do.

That is a good point, so why not argue that point. From my experience as a patient and relation of other patients over the last 15years some thing have improved. I agree there is still a lot wrong and for the amount of money ploughed in they should have. As for staff moral that’s difficult to gauge if you are not staff or know staff personally.

ukcarper

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukcarper
Do you think some people on here weaken their argument because they will not admit that anything has got better? For example there is a very good argument that the NHS has not improved enough considering the amount of money that has been ploughed into it but instead they say it hasn’t got better at all.

marklv wrote: »

Nothing has changed because the money has gone to line the pockets of GPs and consultants. Blair's bribe to keep the senior people happy - and rich.

You prove my point

StevieJ

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you think some people on here weaken their argument because they will not admit that anything has got better? For example there is a very good argument that the NHS has not improved enough considering the amount of money that has been ploughed into it but instead they say it hasn’t got better at all.

Agreed, but some of the injection of cash has hindered not helped, example I recently heard.
In the past if a nurse was earning allowances e.g. for working at nights, if they were sick they received basic pay, now their pay will include the allowance - Why?

markharding557

When are folks going to twig that there is no real difference between them they are arguing over nicking policies and who is going to do the same thing quicker and all the market deregulation that got us in this mess the tories would have done that too

Rochdale_Pioneers

Regarding the NHS post code lottery mentioned earlier - isn't that what people wanted? In the old days (and again under Labour) standards and targets were set centrally, and that dictated how money was spent locally.

After much complaining about Whitehall mandarins we instead now devolve decisions on spending out to local decision-makers in NHS trusts. Logically this leads to neighbouring trusts deciding to spend money on different things which means stuff available in one place and not the other - the post-code lottery.

Shall we go back to centralised targets then - the only way to ensure that things are the same everywhere? Suits me as a lefty, but I thought middle-class !!!!!!s were against it? I suppose that as a higher-rate tax payer I should be moaning in solidarity with my Daily Wail brethren instead if pointing out that when they say "localism" they actually mean "I want what I want and dont want to pay for what you want."

aelitaman

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Regarding the NHS post code lottery mentioned earlier - isn't that what people wanted? In the old days (and again under Labour) standards and targets were set centrally, and that dictated how money was spent locally.

After much complaining about Whitehall mandarins we instead now devolve decisions on spending out to local decision-makers in NHS trusts. Logically this leads to neighbouring trusts deciding to spend money on different things which means stuff available in one place and not the other - the post-code lottery.

Shall we go back to centralised targets then - the only way to ensure that things are the same everywhere? Suits me as a lefty, but I thought middle-class !!!!!!s were against it? I suppose that as a higher-rate tax payer I should be moaning in solidarity with my Daily Wail brethren instead if pointing out that when they say "localism" they actually mean "I want what I want and dont want to pay for what you want."

When Brown spouts out "Every cencer patient will be seen in xxx days" to every microphone that he can get in front off, is this localised decision making at NHS trust level or centralised targets being dictated to hospitals by Brown?

aelitaman

Also central targets like we have now are just stupid. Areas with ageing populations like Bournemouth have to spend far more on elderly services than areas that have far younger populations. Areas where mass immigration has occured have to spend far more on tropical disease, HIV treatement and TB treatment than the rest of the country.

Before I get castigated for this I was watching The Daily Politics and they had Doctor Hilary Jones on and he was explaining the changing face of health spending in London because of immigration and he quite clearly stated that 300mill is spent on both HIV and TB treatment in London each year (far more than other parts of the country allowing for per head population) and he also stated that TB in the UK was 100% eradicated in the last century.

leveller2911

Last June we went to the local Hospital (Conquest ,Hastings) and my son was referred to an occupational Therapist,nine months later we are still waiting for an appointment.We have been told they are very busy and will see us ASAP.It took 6 months to see the Paediatrician.In my opinion the NHS has got better but its not fit for purpose,its a moneypit and a wasteful one at that.

I would just like to add,I visited a friend of mine this afternoon at the Conquest Hospital,I arrived at 2pm and left at 3:15pm and was charged £2-20 for the parking.I find it a disgrace to charge people parking at hospitals.No one goes to a hospital out of choice and as for the lame excuse of "its a way of raising a small amount of revenue" sorry but funding comes from central government through taxation,not parking charges.