Builder vat fraud

Kiran

Well said, you're not a QS by any chance are you?

jimbo88_2

pimento wrote: »

Jimbo, if at the outset the builder had offered you a 'cash price' and then stuck to his quote, would you be moaning?

If he offered cash for the job, then we wouldnn't have even taken him - as there was another builder who offered cash for cheap extension but we have researched that this was not a good idea, incase anything went wrong with the build, so we chose someone who was able to provide a contract!

(Which we have.....how formal that contract is..is obviously another thing.)

pimento

Are binding contracts and cash payments mutually exclusive then?

Kiran

I think the OP is refering to cash payments without invoices which are very difficult to prove.

00ec25

Kiran wrote: »

Well said, you're not a QS by any chance are you?

no - I am an auditor with a LOT of experience advising estates departments in particular what lessons they have, once again , forgotten on how to run projects.
This supplmented by seeing a friend who had to sack 3 builders before we finished it off for him as a DIY job by calling in a few favours from some trades I know :cool:

jimbo88_2

sunshinetours wrote: »

Sorry there are two sides here

If the builder is invoicing you and quoted you a price including VAT and that is what he has basically invoiced you (ignore the extras at this stage) then he hasn't defrauded you of any money. If he has not collected that VAT from you and paid it over to HMRC then he has defrauded them and they will be very interested to know that. If you called the national VAT helpline and outlined the circumstances to check his number out i would guess a file note will have been made. Whether that will ever get followed up is another matter knowing HMRC computer systems.

Paying money to someone's wife or partner when invoices are coming to you in another name is classical money laundering (in this case presumably for tax reasons). Just keep copies of your receipts that you have and you should be fine

Before you pay his final bills makes sure you have kept back enough money as a retention to ensure all works are finished to your satisfaction before you release any more money. Any extras should have been agreed at the time but if its work you have asked for ie to match skirtings to specific ones you have etc I would expect that to be an extra unless it was specified in original quote surely?

Good luck!

Is he really not defrauding me?... surely that the fact he is not vat registered means he is lining his pockets with our money, instead of passing on to the tax office???...is that not classified as stealing from us??...

I'm not disputing some of the extras the builder had added on- ie skirting, different rsj etc....The main thing we are disputing, is not these minor additions, but for asking for extra money for the build of the whole extension, which is much more than the original quote/contract that we signed. If I was quoted say £100 to fit a door, you don't then do it and ask for another £100 more if the door cost more than he thought surely??

Please don't forget, we signed a contract to agree a certain price for a certain size, so I was surprised that once it was built, then a surprise amount was then added on top, now we are nearing the end of the build? Bearing in mind, he has been working onsite for 4-5 months and yet there was NO mention of this additional cost to the extension until last week! Surely, you as a professional builder, you would have at least thought to mention this? An extra 3k requested, to us, is not a small sum! We can't just magic out some money out of a hat.

Because this is our first house, and since he is the "builder" having done several site visits beforehand and being an experienced "professional", he should know what he needs to build it, how much he needs and how much it costs?......

00ec25

jimbo88 wrote: »

so we chose someone who was able to provide a contract!

(Which we have.....how formal that contract is..is obviously another thing.)

what is the relationship of the contract to the quote you referred to?
what does it say about the costs (and any variations to the specification)
what does it say about grounds for determining the works?
what does it say about retention payments and defect liability periods?

if you fall out with the builder now can you under the contract (or would you realistically want) to get him back to fix the inevitable snagging and defects that appear over the next few months

prowla

Charging you VAT when he is not paying it on is theft.
The only possible justification would be if he is about to register and declare it, but given that he is using the VAT reg from a previous company, I think we can say that isn't the case.
It would be acceptable for him to ask you to pay the builders merchants for materials, but asking you to pay his girlfriend is a fiddle.

jimbo88_2

Tucker wrote: »

5 months is a joke. I started an extension of the same size with pitched roof around the same time and we had the carpets fitted before xmas and the whole job done./QUOTE]

It's our first house and extension work, and so we have no idea of how long these should take?...Originally he said it would take 2-3months, but obviously with bad weather/snow etc we had, there has been some delay. (which is understandable) But we have no idea of how long a flat roof 3x5m would take....though we know they drink alot of tea!:)

suisidevw

Have you really already paid for these vast increases in the actual extension without confronting the builder?!