Builder vat fraud

jimbo88_2

pelirocco wrote: »

They would probably want copies of the invoices thats all , dont worry

Oh okay!...That's fine, as we have all copies of invoices he has emailed to us.

macman

sorry, duplicate post removed

macman

You sound like the dream customer for a rip-off builder.
He can't 'damage' your house. If he does threaten to then you simply ask him to remove himself and his equipment and call the police if he won't comply. If you want the job finished by him (and if it's not finished after 5 months, will it ever be?), then pay him the minimum you can to get to that stage, then tell him you have discovered his fraud and will not pay more than what is justifiably chargeable.
How much does he owe you in defrauded VAT compared to what you owe him?
If you pay him everything except the VAT, then you can kiss the rest of your stolen money goodbye, as the Revenue will have first call on whatever is recoverable.
Look after your own interests and leave him and the Revenue to theirs.

dampdaveski

Jimbo,
Macman makes sense.
This guy is not only having you over, he is sticking 2 fingers up to every tax payer in the land.
I would kick him off site AND report him to HMRC, they will be interested to have a chat with him!
Just think of all our armed forces doing what they have to do in Afghanistan with our tax money and then think about upsetting his feelings.
He can quite easily make a good job for you without charging VAT (that he isn't entitled to do) or attempting to defraud you with bogus extra charges and make a decent living
He's chosen to steal from you, you've found out and you have every right to report him.
hope you get on ok
DD

jimbo88_2

macman wrote: »

You are being remarkably generous to this guy! You say he's started late without justification, consistently added extra costs, taken 4 months to build an extension.,,

Those added extra costs go like this- eg....the original quote for a rsj was for this type of rsj, but you need a stronger rsj for whatever reason it was...and that will cost extra...

the original quote was for skirting "a", but if you want to match it with existing skirting "b" like in rest of house then that is extra....

so just lots of minor things like that...and although they are minor things...they all start to add up...

macman

I think you know the answer to your own question. He's a cynical conman.

pimento

Jimbo, if at the outset the builder had offered you a 'cash price' and then stuck to his quote, would you be moaning?

sunshinetours

Sorry there are two sides here

If the builder is invoicing you and quoted you a price including VAT and that is what he has basically invoiced you (ignore the extras at this stage) then he hasn't defrauded you of any money. If he has not collected that VAT from you and paid it over to HMRC then he has defrauded them and they will be very interested to know that. If you called the national VAT helpline and outlined the circumstances to check his number out i would guess a file note will have been made. Whether that will ever get followed up is another matter knowing HMRC computer systems.

Paying money to someone's wife or partner when invoices are coming to you in another name is classical money laundering (in this case presumably for tax reasons). Just keep copies of your receipts that you have and you should be fine

Before you pay his final bills makes sure you have kept back enough money as a retention to ensure all works are finished to your satisfaction before you release any more money. Any extras should have been agreed at the time but if its work you have asked for ie to match skirtings to specific ones you have etc I would expect that to be an extra unless it was specified in original quote surely?

Good luck!

Tucker

5 months is a joke. I started an extension of the same size with pitched roof around the same time and we had the carpets fitted before xmas and the whole job done.

You really should consider offically reporting the matter. By the very fact that you NOW know something is seriously wrong and that Mr Builder is very likely commiting offences, you are now in a position where you could be vulnerable if you fail to act.

Clearly, you have done nothing wrong to date. However, once armed with the knowledge that someone is potentally committing an offence, you could be implicated from now on in, if you in any way compound the offence(s). You will be knowingly allowing someone to continue offending and in some pieces of legislation, that in itself becomes a prosecutable offence.

I would speak to him with your concerns, make a decision about whether he carries on working for you and report it for your own sake, if he does not prove to you that he's on the level.

00ec25

one assume you did not use a formal contract - oh dear when will people apply the same standards to building works that they use when buying the house in the first place

layman's guidance here:
http://www.channel4.com/4homes/on-tv/don-t-blame-the-builders/how-to-create-a-building-contract-08-08-12_p_2.html

there are a number of template contracts you can use but the industry standard is set up by, and available from, the Joint Contracts Tribunal and is used in nearly every instance of works done for a commercial client (unless the client is a Govt dept as they have their own version) - there is a homeowner version here :
http://www.homeownercontracts.com/

I can of course understand your opportunistic attitude in that you want to profit from the fact you have discovered his fraud, knowing that he is in a weak position to take you to court for non payment.
how much detail did the original quote go to - as mentioned already if the builder can show that what he is now fitting is different to what was originally specified then he has a valid claim for extra costs. I am less happy about an RSJ - who did the plans? Was it the builder themselves or did you have an architect do them? As a change of RSJ would be classed as a design error and any cost associated with a new RSJ should fall to whoever did the design (this is why you need a contract!)

as you appear to only have a quote and have not actually agreed a contract sum, then any extra costs can only be resolved by taking him to court and letting the court decide what is in or out of the original quote. Equally importantly who gave the builder permission to make the change and what was agreed as being the cost consequences of that change - ie if you said yes then you have agreed verbally to pay it even if a proce was not agreed at the time

one assumes the quote is non binding in the sense that it is an indication of the final cost but not a fixed price - therefore, as said, the fact he is charging VAT is not an entitlement for you to say you want a cash rebate for having overpaid him. It appears that your retience to involve the authorities in what is clealry a case of tax evasion/fraud is (quite understandably) driven by the desire to get a rebate on what it has cost you, however, unless you can show that the difference between what you have paid to him and the total of the original quote is due to the "VAT" he has charged, then he can equally say to you he quoted £10,000 for the job and you have paid him £10,000 so you are not entitled to a rebate


the relations you have desribed sound like the typical position householders get to when they use cowboy builders and do not want to face the consequences of that fact. If it was me (it wouldn't be as i use contracts) then I would sack the builder, infrom HMRC properly and find another builder to finish it off.