Builder vat fraud

Premier_2

jimbo88 wrote: »

Hmm...because we don't want to cause any serious problems?? The builder has family and kids, he's been made bankrupt once...and he would obviously know who would have reported him?

It's quite easy for people reading this, to view things in black and white, throw the book at the situation and problem solved....

What problems will you cause?

Look this conman is conning you ... and no doubt many like you.

If you feel pity for the conman, explain to him that what he is doing is illegal, and that you would rather just pay the guy 17.5% more than originally agreed rather than him taking it from you.

Oh, but you don't. You are hoping to reclaim the money you have paid him for supposed VAT. How is he going to feed & clothe his poor family and kids? Sounds like you are trying to bankrupt him again.

Wake up & smell the coffee!

macman

We don't have any firm evidence that the builder is actually avoiding VAT (though I would think it improbable that he isn't). But even if he isn't , he is certainly defrauding the OP (and presumably all his other customers) by charging bogus VAT on top and pocketing the lot.
So he could be shopped by any of his clients.

sunshinetours

Premier wrote: »

A builder, or anyone else, cannot add VAT to their bill unless they are VAT registered.

What I don't understand is that the OP is reluctant to report this person who is stealing not only their but my money (in the form of tax evasion), or why they agreed to make cheques out to someone other than the tradesman/company. Why even bother checking up on the status of the VAT registration if they are not prepared to report the matter now they find he isn't VAT registered?

Agreed but as I said it depends on what contract said and whether VAT was actually split out. I believe in a different post the OP has now clarified that the VAT exc and VAT inc prices were mentioned which is clearly not correct for a non VAT registered business.

What wasn't clear is if the contract had said £20k inc VAT and all materials for example , and this would then be the contracted price regardless of VAT element

I act for plenty in construction industry who don't get the point that if they are not registered for VAT they cannot show any VAT costs separately on their material cost for example

As such is seems they are indeed stealing both the OP's and indirectly all of our tax money by doing what they are doing. I would report them

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/TEH_IRF?dept-name=TEH&sub-dept-name=&location=39&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk

leveller2911

Im VAT registered and I don't know a single builder who quotes a price including VAT.The reason for this is if they are including 17.5% vat in the quote what happens when the vat rate changes?.

The usual way is to qoute say £1,000 +VAT then each party knows where they stand.If the rate goes up before the invoice is raised then the amount of vat increases accordingly.

sunshinetours

leveller2911 wrote: »

Im VAT registered and I don't know a single builder who quotes a price including VAT.The reason for this is if they are including 17.5% vat in the quote what happens when the vat rate changes?.

The usual way is to qoute say £1,000 +VAT then each party knows where they stand.If the rate goes up before the invoice is raised then the amount of vat increases accordingly.

I am awre of how it should work - I am telling you what also does happen!

Actually if you are quoting to a domestic customer you should always quote a VAT inclusive price

VAT rates vary rarely change and when they do its well publicised so not really a tricky issue

leveller2911

sunshinetours wrote: »

I am awre of how it should work - I am telling you what also does happen!


Calm down dear,lol:D

Actually if you are quoting to a domestic customer you should always quote a VAT inclusive price


I've read my " VAT in the Construction Industry" from HMRC and can't find anywhere where it says this.

Maybe you could help me out and post a link?

00ec25

sunshinetours wrote: »

AS someone else said throw him and his tools off the job and get someone else in to quote to finish the work

agreed - as per my earlier post #21 !

jimbo88_2

Premier wrote: »

What problems will you cause?

Look this conman is conning you ... and no doubt many like you.

If you feel pity for the conman, explain to him that what he is doing is illegal, and that you would rather just pay the guy 17.5% more than originally agreed rather than him taking it from you.

Oh, but you don't. You are hoping to reclaim the money you have paid him for supposed VAT. How is he going to feed & clothe his poor family and kids? Sounds like you are trying to bankrupt him again.

Wake up & smell the coffee!

Well, there is the small matter of the building certificate at the end?...which he probably won't hand over if it gets too sour?...

I don't pity the builder, but when you have worked with someone for several months, would you not give them a chance to explain things?...and then obviously take it further depending on how he reacts?...

leveller2911

sunshinetours wrote: »

VAT rates vary rarely change and when they do its well publicised so not really a tricky issue

Actually the VAT rules on listed building are quite complex.Some work is vat payable 17.5% , some is vat free and draught proofing can be 5% vat payable.....

00ec25

leveller2911 wrote: »

sunshinetours wrote: »

I am awre of how it should work - I am telling you what also does happen!


Actually if you are quoting to a domestic customer you should always quote a VAT inclusive price

I've read my " VAT in the Construction Industry" from HMRC and can't find anywhere where it says this.

agreed that in the commercial work no one tenders incl VAT, but when dealing with joe public, then surely from a business point of view, it is better to be clear at the outset what is the bottom line cost the punter will have to pay?

of course you do then run the risk that someone else will quote ex VAT and joe public will miss this caveat and merely see a significantly cheaper price...