QT last night - Will Self - what a fool

The_White_Horse

torontoboy45 wrote: »

so tell us all: what type of punishment would you have meted out to the 2 convicted children?

I would have put them in prison and never released them until the day they died.

Really, they should have been put down. 10 or 20 - they are sick deranged animals.

think of it like a footballer getting a red card in the first minute of a game, or the 89th. its just tough luck that one misses 89 minutes of the game. They brutally tortured and murdered at 10 years old - just means they get to stay longer in prison.

matbe

Anyone who has children will have had that heart stopping moment of absolute fear and dread after taking your eyes off a toddler for seconds and you think you have lost them.

Its so easy to lose track for 10 secs and there gone from view.

I only did it once at Butlins of all places I nearly shat myself.

To blame a parent for the death by losing a toddler while out shopping is absolutely ridiculous.

There but for the grace of god.....

nightwatchman

I can not understand why everyone focuses its anger on Venables & Thompson.
At the end of the day they were 10 years old…. for havens name!
Personally I would prefer to see their parents dancing on the end of a rope.
If nothing would be an example to others to upbring their children correctly.
What kind of parents must they be if they brought up these offspring?
By the way is anyone knows what happen to them?

matbe

nightwatchman wrote: »

I can not understand why everyone focuses its anger on Venables & Thompson.
At the end of the day they were 10 years old…. for havens name!
Personally I would prefer to see their parents dancing on the end of a rope.
If nothing would be an example to others to upbring their children correctly.
What kind of parents must they be if they brought up these offspring?
By the way is anyone knows what happen to them?

Maybe because they mutilated and killed a three year old child ?

What part do you not understand ?

Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it to you ?

nightwatchman

matbe wrote: »

Maybe because they mutilated and killed a three year old child ?

What part do you not understand ?

Perhaps someone smarter than me can explain it to you ?

Matbe you have misunderstand my post.
Let me use an example not far fetched from the current case.

Let’s assume that two pit-bulls maul a toddler to death.
Let’s say that RSPCA comes & put the pit-bulls down.
Everybody now is happy and the owner of the pit-bulls is let off.

On the above case do you think that justice is done?

I am not trying to declare the two little monsters blameless…
Seriously now…. hang a thief when he is young he will not steal when old.
However in this case their heads only are not satisfying me.
I want the heads of their parents also.

Emy1501

Eton_Rifle wrote: »

Isn't it interesting, here in 2010, that the first thought of someone who obviously doesn't remember the James Bulger murder is that parental negligence may have contributed to the tragedy?

How times have changed in the light of the Madeleine disappeance and our now ridiculously judgemental society.
This thought would have been unthinkable at the time as everyone assumed the toddler just slipped loose from his mother's grasp. Now someone actually wondered for a moment if some of the blame can be laid at that poor mother's door and like the McCanns, we should not pity her if this was indeed the case.

I don't have much sympathy for the McCanns who were happey to leave their kids night after night even though its been suggested that they begged them not on at least one night. The thought of a child waking up in the night not knowing where there parent is is bad enough let alone the thought they could have fallen over wondered out of the house etc.

This situation though is every parents worse nightmare I can only assume that people questioning the parents action do not have or have had kids as if they did they would know that you only have to drop your guard for a second for a child to wander off. This was simply a tragic matter of the kid being in the wrong place at the wrong time and if anything question should be asked of the people who let these two wander off with the kid despite his distress and why no one questioned why 2 ten year olds were wandering around a shopping centre when they should have been at school.

Davesnave

So many people with so much to say!

I wonder how many commenting have known or worked with a psychopathic child over a period of time. It is a chilling and depressing experience, especially if one is outside the sort of regime found in secure units and without adequate back-up.

No wonder there are so few solutions proposed, beyond 'lock 'em up and throw away the key.'

Apportioning blame here feels inappropriate. I don't know how much was appalling parenting and how much was predisposition, and neither, I suspect, does anyone else not closely involved with the case.

What relevance the thread has in this forum also escapes me.

tomterm8

Davesnave wrote: »

No wonder there are so few solutions proposed, beyond 'lock 'em up and throw away the key.'
.

As far as I am aware, at this stage there is no cure for being psychopathic. It is, basically, untreatable. There is no way to be confident that someone who is 'psychopathic' and who has murdered will not do so again.

In which case, if you can't cure the condition, 'lock 'em up and throw away the key.' seems to be the only solution.

Which is a pity.

abaxas

matbe wrote: »

Anyone who has children will have had that heart stopping moment of absolute fear and dread after taking your eyes off a toddler for seconds and you think you have lost them.

Its so easy to lose track for 10 secs and there gone from view.

I only did it once at Butlins of all places I nearly shat myself.

To blame a parent for the death by losing a toddler while out shopping is absolutely ridiculous.

There but for the grace of god.....

Can you add an exception in for The McCann family. They dont care.

Conrad

The_White_Horse wrote: »

they are sick deranged animals.

I used to think like you. In my thirties I took the trouble to step outside my pre-formed world view and read some accounts of abused children.

You you should try it rather than carrying on in the belief your fixed world view is the only correct one.

It is'nt a case of being a bleeding heart leftie, far from it, it's about having an empathy with other Humans born into chaotic 'families' where everyone including the state didn't come to thier rescue as they lay alone at night aged 4 thinking other Humans were merely there to mistreat them without a second thought. I wonder how I would have tunred out with a minute to minute experience like that?

You always say 'plenty of people grow up in abusive circumstances and don't go on to offend' but your missing the central point - there are degrees of abuse.

Furthermore you think (as I used to) that each of us has some central processing unit that keeps us fully in control and able to moral calculations but again if your brain networks grew to form connections based merely upon being abused minute to minute then you end up with a broken brain.

To dismiss them as filthy animals based upon the outcome of that miswiring is at best childish.

I'm no lefty - I often do threads about levelling lefties like will self, Michael Foot, Shirley Williams, Ben Elton and Lenny Henry that claim to strongly believe in wealth redistribution but cling to the bulk of thier own wealth!

QUESTION - imagine this moment you are wathcing a film about a 2 year old boy being burned with fags and starved and locked in dark rooms for days at a time.

HOW WOULD YOU FEELABOUT THAT HUMAN RIGHT NOW?

At which moment would he stop having your sympathy? (ie become a filthy animal)