QT last night - Will Self - what a fool

The_White_Horse

i see jack straw says it is not in the interests of justice to reveal more. I think he means it is not in the interests of the murderer to reveal more.

The_White_Horse

chucky wrote: »

is this a fact or did you get it from your Sun newspaper again.

how do you know that he is guilty of this - innocent until proven guilty right... why shouldn't Venables not entitled to a trial here?

have you now become the judge, the jury and executioner?

unfortunately we can only get our info from the Sun as the interests of the murderer have to be served.

I don't know if he is guilty or not - frankly I don't care, because he should be locked up until the day he dies for what he did to jamie bulger in any event.

The_White_Horse

how old are you chucky?

ses6jwg

A few years ago when I was in University I would have tended to agree with Self.

Now I have a child I swing more to White Horses' position.

I don't agree with mob justice whatsoever, but when you have a legal system that acts like this you can't blame people for acting in the way they do.

If somebody seriously assaulted or murdered my child, I would probably kill them regardless of the legal consequences. I wouldn't care any longer.

chucky

The_White_Horse wrote: »

how old are you chucky?

old enough

The_White_Horse wrote: »

unfortunately we can only get our info from the Sun as the interests of the murderer have to be served.

I don't know if he is guilty or not - frankly I don't care, because he should be locked up until the day he dies for what he did to jamie bulger in any event.

i've read your posts but why don't you provide me with a long list of links to research articles (not The Sun) that supports your statements that violent tendencies are genetically determined and maintained from children to adult.

can you confirm that there is evidence of both nature and nurture in a person's make-up? some people may be born 'evil', others may not, but are we then in a position to judge which it is in this case, not having read the case notes and with no evidence that this story is true?

mustrum_ridcully

The_White_Horse wrote: »

Yes. If they murder and torture, they should be removed from society permanently. Preferably by being put down, as you would with any crazed animal, or by being banged up for life.

Surely murder is murder? Are you going to "put down" the professional child murders aka executioners (after all how crazed must someone be to want to kill 10 year old children for a living)?

Also isn't telling a child that they're going to be taken away and killed a form of torture (one that has actually been used on hostages)?

The_White_Horse

chucky wrote: »

old enough



i've read your posts but why don't you provide me with a long list of links to research articles (not The Sun) that supports your statements that violent tendencies are genetically determined and maintained from children to adult.

can you confirm that there is evidence of both nature and nurture in a person's make-up? some people may be born 'evil', others may not, but are we then in a position to judge which it is in this case, not having read the case notes and with no evidence that this story is true?

but i don't advocate judging on nature or nuture. only on actions. if you kill in cold blood, you should be taken out of society permanently.

the end.

The_White_Horse

mustrum_ridcully wrote: »

Surely murder is murder? Are you going to "put down" the professional child murders aka executioners (after all how crazed must someone be to want to kill 10 year old children for a living)?

Also isn't telling a child that they're going to be taken away and killed a form of torture (one that has actually been used on hostages)?

don't be so daft.

in any event, you can get around your second point by smply not telling them.

chucky

The_White_Horse wrote: »

but i don't advocate judging on nature or nuture. only on actions. if you kill in cold blood, you should be taken out of society permanently.

the end.

would you then execute the executioner?

moggylover

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Exactly!! Never been established.

Which is the problem I have when conrad keeps talking as if these killers were abused as kids and finding excuses based on this.

What's more, he tells us:

THESE are the thoughts of people I have a problem with. Come down holier than thou, but use something that has never been proven to make their case and talk about it as if it's somehow fact, while preaching to others how they should open their minds!

I suspect that you didn't bother to read the link the GD because I would certainly consider that the Thompson boy lived in a very abusive situation:D

Venables family appeared to be less so (perhaps because they stuck around) but his prior behaviour seems to have been very disturbed and show at least some of the indicators that would be looked for to suggest either mental illness, or abuse in some part of his life.