Please help re flat deposit

EagerLearner

Hi Kent_lady and bless you for being up with the owls reading all this!!!! You poor thing you must be exhausted and I hope you didn't have to work today!

Yes it has been quite a rollercoaster and thanks to the folks here I am taking this forward, don't think I could have otherwise. The good thing is I have learnt alot, and even though it is 'just' a basic court case when you look ait it, for us it has become something more about justice, I know it sounds corny. In 10 years of renting I have never been treated like this or had money deducted so we knew it was wrong as soon as she did it.

Whether the judge sees it that way, is another matter!

kent_lady

Hi EL, yes I have matchsticks holding the eyes open today...!

I'm sure you'll forgive me for not reading through again (!!) but did I see somewhere in this thread that you could offer advice on self-employment and how you personally have gone about it? If so could I PM you for an off-thread discussion? I am thinking of doing something simliar to the service you offer (but don't worry, no competition as I am MILES away from you!! )

Thanx

BWZN93

EL - Ive only just read this thread (had to miss out pages 45-65 though as I have to go to bed!) but I wanted to wish you luck and say that you are a real inspiration, I really hope the b***h gets nailed to the wall for all the problems she has caused you, and I hope you get the best outcome possible. I missed out on actually finding her etc but ive bookmarked the page for tomorrow so I will catch up!

Its really interesting reading too and im glad ive got a really nice landlord that hasnt caused me any troubles - I hope it stays that way!

Jo x

EagerLearner

Hi Kent_Lady - yes of course, although I have only been doing it for 4 months but will of course tell you all I know - PM me when you have a minute to remind me!

Thanks JW1096 - I hope justice and the universe will be on our side - this week will be sending the stuff off, although very hard to think of on a bank holiday weekend - I am hoping 90% of it is ready to go as we had prepared so much in January x

EagerLearner

Hi everyone - well last night we made a start on sifting through all the paperwork, what a nightmare. So much stuff, and no idea what is relevant and what is not. We do have 3 tentative piles now - one for us, one for landlady, one for judge.

We know from the last time that the judge got handed our supporting documents 5 minutes before going on, so I ask myself, what is the point in overloading him? No way did he take it all in - and besides, he will only want what is specifically relevant to this case which is - the deductions made to our deposit.

HELP PLEASE...

Please can we put our heads together as you will all be more neutral I hope and can see from judge's point of view... my main thoughts right now are to include:

- Event Schedule - lists date of event and short description
- Documents Schedule - lists document number and document description
- Original check-in inventory
- Our 3 letters chasing for return of deposit, and MAYBE inc photocopies of returned letters & Royal Mail comments
- MAYBE the e-mail from landlady saying 'thanks for your letter of 10th August' including deposit breakdown (ie: letter #2) to prove she did get it, therefore was aware of impending court action
- Original documents / invoices / receipts / deposit breakdown received in August
- Printout from www.arla.co.uk of how a landlord should correctly process the return or retaining of a deposit (3 pages, highlighted relevant parts)

That keeps it simple for the judge?
No including faxes / letters / e-mails to letting agent
No including documents relating to trying to find her real address
No including the re-typed check-in inventory from letting agent (as defendant has already submitted this)

Any thoughts you have much appreciated as we are trying to finish this off tonight...
What do you all think?

Guy_Montag

I still think you want everything before the judge, even if he doesn't read it. Whatever, make sure you take it with you.

One way to do it is to make up a ring binder: at the front the main evidence, then towards the back in divided sections "supporting evidence" e.g. a section of correspondence with letting agent, a section on documents about finding her address etc.

I do this for large reports at work - I put all the important stuff at the front & then I put supporting information at the back so if anyone's interested they can check things up, but they don't get swamped with the important stuff. It seems to impress people.

EagerLearner

Thanks Guy - only thing is that I believe we have to submit everything we will be presenting - and we have to do it now, and in triplicate? I don't think we can present new evidence on the day?

John_Pierpoint

Hi Eagerlearner,

I am busy and so are you. I've got the results of the court case I was involved in and have been hanging off waiting for the financial details. So I won't clutter up your thread at this busy time.

In my case we had to wait 10 days for a judgement and then the rest of the month for a ruling on the terms of the settlement.

The judge can only act within the letter of the law; so in my opinion you need to:
1. Comply with the rules spot on as far as delivering documentation goes etc.
(I think this is the only area where some smart solicitor might be able to attack your case).
2. You need to highlight instances where the wicked LL (deliberately) ignored the rules. Dodgy addresses, pretending not to have received your letters etc.
3. Demonstrate that she wilfully LIED - fake invoices etc.
4. Recently you mentioned you have rented a string of flats and NEVER before been refused the return of your deposit. If you can prove that track record I feel sure it will go in your favour (I did not visualise you as some dippy young woman setting up her first home BUT I know a lot more about you than the judge does)
5. As far as layout goes, I think the last poster Guy has the right idea.

You can offer the Judge extra information to back up your rebuttal of something put to you under cross examination - In the case I was involved in that happened, but don't be tempted to offer something you cannot deliver immediately, that would not look good. If it demonstrates the other side is lying that is a brilliant move, because in the final analysis the judge has to decide which side produced the "credible witnesses".

The only person guaranteed to loose is LL, who will be saddled with legal costs greater than the value of your deposit, so be ready to be attacked as vexatious - I think the best defence to that is to say "I believe in fair play, the rule of law and English justice".

Keep smiling,

We are all with you,
John

EagerLearner

John_Pierpoint wrote: »

The judge can only act within the letter of the law; so in my opinion you need to:
1. Comply with the rules spot on as far as delivering documentation goes etc.
(I think this is the only area where some smart solicitor might be able to attack your case).
I know what you mean, the only thing is, we have so much info, we are struggling to know what is needed in direct relation to this case ref the deductions made to our deposit. It will be much harder to defend ourselves if we have a mountain of paperwork to sift though than if we have succinct and transparent documents relating only to the deposit deductions she made.

2. You need to highlight instances where the wicked LL (deliberately) ignored the rules. Dodgy addresses, pretending not to have received your letters etc.
This is what the last court case was about, and the judge allowed her to counter claim because we had no proof she had actually received the court letter as it got sent back to the court?

3. Demonstrate that she wilfully LIED - fake invoices etc.
The invoices are sketchy and several are handwritten - we can present them but we can't prove anything really, it will be for the judge to decide. Other than that, I guess it's all hearsay?

4. Recently you mentioned you have rented a string of flats and NEVER before been refused the return of your deposit. If you can prove that track record I feel sure it will go in your favour (I did not visualise you as some dippy young woman setting up her first home BUT I know a lot more about you than the judge does)
As we never rented via letting agents we can't prove this so close to the court date, plus it would be hard to track the people down after all these years sadly.

5. As far as layout goes, I think the last poster Guy has the right idea.
So do we create 3 folders to submit?

Thanks John and really appreciate your time as I know you have alot going on, it's helpful to hear other points of view given that we need to get this paperwork out soon.

Any responses to above in pink and any further comments much appreciated

EagerLearner

Another question:

Should we start with oldest documents first, back to newest

or

newest documents first, back to oldest?

For now we have oldest documents first, so that reading through you then come to the newest stuff at the back.