First Direct - PPI missold claim

J_i_m

Another letter from my adjudicator.

I wrote to you recently about your complaint against HSBC.

I can confirm that your complaint is now waiting to be referred to one of our ombudsmen for a decision.

In the meantime, I would be grateful if you could let us know of any important changes in your personal circumstances that you haven't already told us about - for example, if:

* You are now experiencing exceptional financial hardship because of circumstances connected to your complaint.
* You are suffering serious ill-health, which makes it extremely important to you that this complaint is resolved quickly.
* Legal action is being threatened in relation to this crse; or
* You have had an offer from HSBC since we last wrote, and you have accepted this offer to settle your complaint (or are considering accepting it).

If you need to contact us in the meantime, please contact me on the number below.

Otherwise, we will be in touch again to update you on progress.

This is my 3rd letter now from my adjudicator, to tell me there is basically no news. Still it's clearly freshly written every-time and not simply the last letter with the date changed. So effort is going on to keep me informed even though there is nothing to inform me of.

I have to admit, I nearly got excited when I was reading the opening paragraph, only to re-read it and notice the the phrase "now waiting".

So ultimately this is yet another "non update" update. I guess some of that has something to do with the BBA still leaving us hanging over whether their going to appeal the JR decision.

It also remains to be seen if any of the banks follow Lolyds lead, and admit defeat, I somewhat doubt it at the moment.

J_i_m

Your complaint about HSBC Bank Plc (trading as first direct)

I am writing about your complaint against HSBC. I am very sorry about the delay in referring this case to an ombudsman.

The delay has been caused by the very large number of cases where consumers and businesses are now requesting a formal decision by an ombudsman - as the final stage our complaints procedure.

You will appreciate that ombudsmen with the appropriate expertise in the area relating to your complaint are skilled specialists in much demand. Unfortunately, this means that in periods of heavy demand we are not always able to refer complaints to the ombudsman as quickly as we would like.

However, I will write to you again to keep in touch with you.

oooh a different letter this time.... telling me the same thing.

killdozer

I too work for the NHS as does my lady. My Lady friend has HBOS card. She was unsuccessful with first two complaints although that was without the knowledge that Statutory sick pay sort of invalidates the the bank claim that it sold us the PPI fairly.

Just in the middle of writing letter with help from your excellent thread!

Hope there has been some movement for you and i hope you come back to tell us what's happened.

pistolpete1980

Its interesting to read through your thread as i too have been rejected by FD recently on a PPI claim and i was under the impression that was that.

Whilst i also agree they have been an excellent bank, they have handled this fairly poorly and i received a standardised letter for both credit card and loan PPI. It basically said I signed the form (which i did) therefore i dont have a leg to stand on. It was only afterwards i realised that im covered for everything via my employer.

Look ike i will go ahead and contact the FSO

J_i_m

Finally! I have a useful update although I warn you that long ago when I started this thread I was a young man

I received a letter from a FOS Team Manager this morning and I immediately had a good feeling before I even opened it due to the envelope being bigger and heavier than my recent FOS correspondence

Here's what it says:

Your complaint about HSBC Bank Plc (trading as First Direct)

I am writing to you about your complaint concerning the payment protection insurance (PPI) policy you took out with HSBC.

I am pleased to let you know that HSBC has told us that it would like to make an offer as a gesture of goodwill offer, with no admission of liability, to settle your compliant.

HSBC will be writing to you to explain the precise terms of it's proposed settlement - however, it has told us that it will be based on the general approach that the Financial Ombudsman Service takes when we decide that a consumer has been mis-sold a PPI policy.

We have set out our typical approach to redress in the factsheet(s) at the end of this letter. As you can see, the settlement of your complaint will be calculated by taking into account the type of PPI policy or policies you have complained about - and whether or not there is still a loan/credit card account of PPI policy in force. The settlement will also take into account any money you have received through a claim on the policy and also if there are any arrears. Further information about our approach to redress is also available on our website at http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/ppi.html.

It is important to understand that the offer will be subject to you agreeing to the cancellation of the payment protection insurance policy (or policies) - if still in force. This will mean that all insurance cover provided by the policy will be lost. I am afraid we cannot give you advice on alternative insurance arrangements, and you may wish to seek independent advice about the options available to you before deciding whether to accept the offer. You can also look at the Financial Services Authority's comparison tables at https://www.fsa.gov.uk/tables/bespoke/PPI.

If you would like to accept this offer you do not need to take any action. If we do not hear from you within the next 14 days, we will assume you accept the offer and we will inform HSBC. However, should you wish to discuss this offer further, or do not wish to accept it, then please contact us on the details at the end of this letter within the next 14 days.

Please note that by accepting HSBC offer, you are accepting our general approach to calculating compensation if we were to uphold your complaint. HSBC will then write to you with the exact figures (and revised loan/credit card account details where appropriate) once the calculation has been carried out. HSBC has requested that we inform you that it may take up to eight weeks (from the date we provide confirmation that you have accepted the offer) for it to calculate and process the settlement.

If, once the figures have been received, you believe that HSBC has made an error in the way it has carried out the calculation, please contact HSBC initially to discuss this. If you are unable to resolve the matter with HSBC, well will be happy to assist.

As we explain in our leaflet, your complaint and the ombudsman, consumers have the right to ask an ombudsman to review their complaint - as the final stage in our process. However, I hope that this will not now be necessary in this case.

So... I now know that I'm going to get some redress though I don't yet know how much. HSBC still refuse to accept liability, though it seems they know the cat is out of the bag an know a Ombudsman is likely to rule in my favour. So may as well offer to settle this now.

I'm pleased with this development, though still uncertain, I think there's still plenty of scope for chinanigans on their part, since I already cancelled the PPI policy and have since not been able to get my head around any potential redress calculation. I'd hardly be in a position to argue with any figure unfortunately, though I assume I shall be put back in the position I would have been had I not taken out PPI in the first place, and I will be able to view all my paperwork to compare monthly repayments etc.

J_i_m

Thinking a little further, I spotted a potential problem and have sent the FOS the following message.

Dear sir/madam

Thank you for your letter dated 9th September regarding my complaint against First Direct. I am pleased that they are ready to make me an offer. However I am concerned that they could take longer than the 14 days stated in your letter for me to respond before you assume that I have accepted. I fear that it would be possible that you could inform First Direct of my acceptance without me yet having actually received any information from First Direct.

It seems to me, considering the time I have already waited (well over a year since I referred my complaint about First Direct to the FOS) that 14 days not including the time it takes for First Direct to write to me is not an adequate time period for me or any customer to consider an offer especially when even then the bank could have yet to actually provide a figure of the amount of redress they will offer.

Would it not be more prudent for a calculation to be provided at the same time as the supposed offer (instead of taking a further 8 weeks to calculate) and then allow 14 days for the customer to consider it and to respond, as how can anyone accept an offer without actually knowing what the offer is?

Thank you again for your letter, I do appreciate that everyone at the FOS is extremely busy with PPI cases in general and I am grateful for my case being handled by you. I do hope to feel able to accept First Direct's offer, however in the meantime if am yet to receive their letter by 28th of September (14 days from today, the date I received your letter) I shall contact you again to inform you of this and to postpone my acceptance of any offer until I am able to confirm receiving it.

J_i_m

Ok, so I have been waiting patiently for 14 days for First Direct to send me the "precise terms" of their offer of "goodwill"... lo & behold I have not received any contact from them what so ever, not a dicke bird.

I did however receive a reply to the email I sent to the FOS.

The letter we sent to you is an offer. The offer made is in line with
> Financial Ombudsman Service guidelines and if you decide to accept the
> offer you would be accepting the method of calculation and not the final
> figure. As the offer is an 'offer in principle' there is no figure
> calculated at present. One of the reasons for this is because the 8%
> simple interest per annum is awarded until the settlement date,
> therefore the figure calculated today would be different to a figure
> calculated in eight weeks.
>
> The Financial Ombudsman Service approach is to enable you to agree to a
> method of calculation. The business then has a further eight weeks to
> contact you with a breakdown of the settlement and will provide
> figures. Once the calculations have been received if you believe the
> calculation is incorrect please contact us to let us know why and we
> will assist. Acceptance of the offer is not an acceptance of the
> calculation.
>
> If you have any other queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

This confuses me slightly because I was under the impression that First Direct wanted to me make me an offer and would be themselves writing to me with the "precise terms".

The earlier letter from the FOS did not indicate that First Direct were making the offer via the FOS.

I have responded to the FOS thus.

Thank you for your reply to my email.

As I understood from the letter written to me by your colleague *****
******** on 9th September 2011, HSBC/First Direct are supposed to
write to me to explain the terms of the offer they wish to make,
(quote below).

"HSBC will be writing to you to explain the precise terms of its
proposed settlement - however, it has told us that it will be based on
the general approach that the Financial Ombudsman Service takes when
we decide that a consumer has been been miss-sold a PPI Policy."

The letter also states that unless I contacted you the FOS within the
next 14 days, it would be assumed that I had accepted the HSBC/First
Direct offer.

However at the time of my writing this email, (28th September 2011,
after the morning post) I have not received any contact at all from
HSBC/First Direct, and hence I have not received the precise terms of
their settlement offer.

I assume it would mirror the recommendation made by ****** ****** who
adjudicated in my favour on 25th May 2010, and later wrote to inform
me that HSBC/First Direct disagreed with this view on 30th June 2010.
****** recommended that I be put back in the position I would have
been had I not taken out PPI on my loans.

If you can assure me that the offer is to put me in the position I
would have been had I not taken out PPI with my loans, then I would be
pleased to accept, though I hope to receive First Direct's letter soon
to confirm this.

Kind Regards

I have as ever edited out names.

As much as I'm desperately trying to remain patient, I have to admit to being frustrated that First Direct didn't simply send me a letter at the same time as informing the FOS of their intentions. But then I guess banks don't do sensible things do they?

J_i_m

ooh and a quite reply from FOS

Thank you for your email dated 28 September 2011.

I write to confirm that the offer is to put you back in the position you would have been in had you not taken out PPI.

We have now informed the business that you wish to accept the offer. The business will write to you within the next eight to ten weeks with details of the settlement.

If you have not heard from the business by 14 December 2011 please contact me and I will assist you.

Yours sincerely

Next update from me will be probably be on the 14th December then!

Purplenails_2

Wow, just read through this whole thread. They really have given you the run around Jim.

My own personal case: I wrote to First Direct on 14th June this year about a £7,000 loan I had in 2001 (I just happened to find an old agreement amongst some papers). They responded within a few days to tell me that they would investigate.

No further contact was made until 19th September when I received an offer of £5,790 - to say I was amazed doesn't cover it.:j They added 8% pa interest and a "compensatory" payment.

I immediately accepted, signed and returned the documents which they say they received on 21st September. We are now at the 11th October and they have still not paid the money into my account. I know I am impatient, but they are saying it will take at least another two weeks.

The FSA gave some of the banks 16 weeks to settle the cases (at the time I applied). It would appear that First Direct stick to this 16 weeks to make the offer, but then take a few more weeks to actually pay you - frustrating beyond belief, but I suppose I know its coming soon!

Its interesting that they wrote a letter to Jim stating:

"The letter we sent to you is an offer. The offer made is in line with Financial Ombudsman Service guidelines and if you decide to accept the offer you would be accepting the method of calculation and not the final figure. As the offer is an 'offer in principle' there is no figure calculated at present. One of the reasons for this is because the 8% simple interest per annum is awarded until the settlement date, therefore the figure calculated today would be different to a figure calculated in eight weeks."

A time wasting extra four weeks + for each customer claiming clearly makes a difference to them. Being fobbed off with the excuse that they are "very busy with other claims" really doesn't cut it for me! They will not give me an exact payment date.

Good luck Jim, I think you are in for a nice surprise.

J_i_m

If only, I actually had a nasty surprise over the weekend.

I received a phone call from the FOS to tell me that offer stated in my last posts was made in "error". First Direct did not make an offer, they didn't even contact the FOS to state any intention of making an offer. Effectively what's happened is that some poor soul at the FOS has been at home to Mr Cockup.

Quite how this mistake was even possible I don't know.

To say that I'm incandescent with anger would be an understatement and it took an almighty effort to keep my voice even and curse free during the telephone coversations.

I've been more than patient, I've at the very least waited until past all time scales to do any chasing up of anything. Whilst other people who haven't been waiting nearly as long nor have any more valid a claim than mine seem to have stamped their feet and got exactly what they demanded.. I have got nothing.

The situation now is that FOS have to inform First Direct of their error and offer them the opportunity to continue defending their position, so effectively I'm still in the queue for an ombudsman (I'd best not be at the very bottom of the queue otherwise there will be trouble). They can't give me a timescale of course so I can expect many more months or rather more likely... Years for this to be resolved.

To be honest, at this stage I don't expect First Direct (post judicial review nonsense) to fight their corner and I sense that they'll probably mirror the error. The problem is that I don't know that yet and have been left hanging so to speak.