unenforceable credit card agreememnts

interested4

sorry if i'm missing something but isn't this just theft?! you wouldn't steal things from a shop just because there was no security guard even if you thought its prices were a bit high so what is the difference?

interested4

what does a vague reference to the concept of banks lending some of their depositer's money have to do with my question?!

In simple terms, if I lent my mate £100, I'd expect him to pay me back...and he might even buy me a beer for my trouble. I wouldn't expect him to come back to me and tell me it is unenforceable because we haven't written up a bullet-proof legally binding contract.

In the case the the MBNA challenge, aside from the fact MBNA are not "my mate", what's the difference?

Wutang_2

Toadsmoker wrote: »

Er no, interested whoever you are, I suggest you learn a thing or two about the fractional reserve banking system before you start claiming that anyone who questions the validity of their credit agreements are thieves.

dear oh dear, what a plank. Is this the way it is now?

Borrow money - then pay it back.

Mary_Hartnell

This fractional banking stuff means in simple terms that banks can lend out up to 8 times the initial "real" money deposited because they know all the depositors won't ask for their money back at the same time.
Only there is no real money any more - it is all that "fiat" money printed by politicians - all the world's gold could be stacked up as ingots in the space under the Eiffel Tower.
Well the credit crunch has made a nasty mess of that fractional banking system, because it works the other way round too.
Once the borrowers start going bust, refusing to pay on technicalities; the bad debts go to the bottom line and wow there is a queue of depositors round the block trying to turn their "fiat" money into gold.
So theoretically every borrower who refused to pay in current conditions creates an 8 fold problem for the bank.
Unfortunately a lot of these "borrowers" have turned out to be other banks playing pass the parcel with packages of dodgy loans; because the other way of creating money is to make the original credit stuff, multiplied up 8 fold, swirl round faster and faster, using 24 hour a day world wide computer systems.
So it is government to the rescue by "printing" more "fiat" money, to stop the whole house of cards falling over (and desperate to get re-elected)

In the great sum of things, an individual punter failing to honour their commitment, is a flee bite in comparison to the financial services and governments making promises they will not keep.

Every little helps to make us all poorer.

never-in-doubt

tobymush29 wrote: »

hi all im a newbie on here & would like some advice if possible, ive got a mbna credit card which im currently in dispute over,ive asked for my credit agreements etc using a template i down loaded off the net,mbna never replied so i duely stopped paying the account,phone call after phone call letter after letter demanding money from me,mbna have now sent me a letter saying that the account is about to go into default as i havent paid the account in over six months & theyre going to issue a default on my credit file,& are going to pursue several recovery actions ie debt collection agencies,or make me remorgage my home,suely they have to send me to court before a debt collection agency can chase the debt & the debt is also unsecured so its not connected to my property,is this just a standard threatening letter & i should do nothing & wait till it goes to court or should i contact mbna??? advice please a worried newbie cheers

As Tixy advised - read here - a whole thread specifically designed to help answer all the points raised in your post! - Unenforceability & Template Letters II

Specifically, a lender must provide a copy of the CCA in line with s.77-s.79 CCA1974. Until such time they do so the account is in unenforceable. That does not, however, mean you can ignore them!

There is a process to follow so the lender knows your intentions, have you considered the fact they never received your CCA Request? You really ought to be writing back asap with the following: CCA Reminder also enclosing a copy of the original CCA request that you purport to have sent in June.

Their threat, while unjustified and unlawful, could be interpreted as them not receiving your original request - so the question begs did you send it registered so you have proof of delivery? If not, you've learned your first lesson - start to do this or you have no proof that you actually sent what you say you sent! If you never got proof of delivery, ignore the advice above and send the following letter instead, with a new £1 payment to cover the CCA fee: CCA Request

I've subbed to this thread so will pop back and see you, however in the meantime you may be better posting here: Unenforceability & Template Letters II

never-in-doubt

soupedup wrote: »

MBNA are not a company with any regard for anything but themselves - that includes threaening telephone call etc. They cannot go for your property = all they can do is harrass

They can continue with normal collection activities and also report to the CRA's (inc Default).

soupedup wrote: »

What they will do I'm afraid is mark you down as defaulting. I can assure MBNA do not respond very quickly to request for these credit agreements and in the long run they will 'blackball' you whether your aggreement is enforcable or unenforcable.

I'm no lover of banks, in fact I hate em, but this is utter nonsense. MBNA respond the best they can, as do all lenders. It is not in their intersts to simply ignore people as the customer has a legal right to withold payment until they provide the CCA so whilst they may send a dodgy copy or a fraudulent reconsitituted version they definitely will not ignore you or keep you waiting unnecessarily. That is factual.

soupedup wrote: »

If it is enforcable they will not make life easy for you. I think that the best way is to ask them directly if it is enforcable (tell them what you have heard- and ask to clarify -- you never know you may be able to negotiate a hold on your account ) and if it turns out enforcable they haven't wrecked your credit file.

Not true. They should, by all accounts (and in line with OFT guidance issued post Carey v HSBC) tell you if they do not have the original but as yet, they don't - none do! They will try anything, sending a fake, a bad copy, a cut&paste job - anything!

No hold will be granted for disputes arising as a result of unenforceability - they will expect payment and if not they will default you and then sell the debt to a DCA. The only solace is afterwards, you may be able to negotiate with the DCA for a lower settlement or removal of default but they do not have to remove the default - it is up to them to authorise it.

soupedup wrote: »

I've learnt from bad experience with the CCA enforceability claims. My view is that there is a relatively low chance of it being unenforcable.

Unfortunately i've seen loats of MBNA CCA's and have to disagree with you there. They are the worst company in all honesty, a high percentage are unenforceable due to the layout of older agreements (if you haven't seen one the terms (prescribed terms omitted) were down the left of the page and did not contai nthe relevant statutory points)!

soupedup wrote: »

The real winners re the lawyers and companies such as EQUICAPITA

They are not winners - they are losers 100% and the fact you've just had to give them a sale pitch says it all - avoid this firm like the plague guys!

never-in-doubt

soupedup wrote: »

Be very careful of what you see from mufc689908 more often than not it is malicious nonsense.

Says you that has been a member for a week! Don't you earn trust and respect? :think:

soupedup wrote: »

MBNA are not a principled company and the boundaries of criminal activity from their activies is quite vague.

Incorrect - and slanderous as well. I'll stay out of this slant thanks, but suffice to say you're way off the ball and serious posters will know to ignore this comment in its entirety.

soupedup wrote: »

I assure you they will demand 90-95% of the payment to settle

I recently helped someone negotiate 50% of balance to MBNA - granted, it was a £16k debt but still, they had a choice - nothing will be paid (as it was unenforceable) or they can have 50% if they removed the default. Obviously they accepted my kind gesture :rotfl:

soupedup wrote: »

- and it will stay on for 5 years.

Even 6 years :rotfl::rotfl:

soupedup wrote: »

Do not trust them (or spiv posters)

Hmmmm :wall::wall::wall:

soupedup

Never in doubt dismisses things as NONSENSE from what evidence do they have to make that? Are they working fro MBNA?
My experience is:
1. MBNA did not respond to my request for copy of CCA despite repeated polite request and allso continued maintainence of payments
2. After this request started a period of harrassment with menacing 0800 to 9 at night incuding passing on information to ther relatives about my MBNA 'problem'.
3. Solicitor attempted on 3 occasions over 4 months to get agreement without response - it was only when they issued a court order that MBNA immediately phoned and said they ould get it to them within 24 hours.
4. The copy a recieved has changes made to it incuding what look like cut and paste.

Perhaps Never-in-Doubt may be able to let us know wahy MBNA conduct themsleves in this way?

mufc689908

soupedup wrote: »

Be very careful of what you see from mufc689908 more often than not it is malicious nonsense.

MBNA are not a principled company and the boundaries of criminal activity from their activies is quite vague.

I want to be clear with you I terms of offering you advice.

I assure you they will demand 90-95% of the payment to settle (so 80% is myth) unless of course that MUFC68..works for MBNA and has been given this discount.

In REALITY They will affect your credit score even if they tell you otherwise - and it will stay on for 5 years.

Do not trust them (or spiv posters)

balance was 9.8k, they accepted 2k over 60 day period to get me off their books. I have no reason to lie loser.

chattychappy

soupedup wrote: »

it was only when they issued a court order that MBNA immediately phoned and said they ould get it to them within 24 hours.

What was the court order?