section 59 - outrageous highway robbery?

katybsim

Has anyone any experience of section 59 - basically an anti-social order - which police can use to target young drivers, issue an initial warning, then once the car is flagged up on the NPR, stop them again and impound the vehicle. It costs150 to get it back plus 20 a day storage - or after 30 days it is crushed.

In a nutshell a PC can issue this if he has "reasonable belief that a vehicle is being driven carelessly and used in a manner which is causing alarm, distress or annoyance". It removes all burden of proof and is totally non specific. How open to abuse is this?

When my son told me of a friend who has his car seized after failing to indicate on a roundabout I thought he was joking. Not so. Last night my son was stopped for "going too fast" and given his second section 59. He and a friend were turfed out of the car, left to walk home, and it was towed away. I was absolutely livid but it appears that there is absolutely no recourse.

I appreciate that this legislation was brought in to curb boy racers ragging their cars and bikes round estates and open land but it is wide open to abuse.

If a driver is caught speeding then charge them! A section 59 needs no evidence and is far more costly. I would also be interested to know whether the police receive any percentage of the 150 tow away fee.

maninthestreet

I totally agree. Anther example of police abusing the powers they have been given. This needs challenging in the courts.

Inactive

I disagree, these idiots get all they deserve.

maninthestreet

Inactive wrote: »

I disagree, these idiots get all they deserve.

On just the say-so of an individual police officer? I don't think so.
Giving the police the powers of judge and jury is bound to be lead to abuses.

anewman

Inactive wrote: »

I disagree, these idiots get all they deserve.

The police need to use these powers at McDonalds in Blackwood and on Blackwood High Street (South Wales). They cause a right menace to other road users and I am sure if this was the result of their offensive behaviour they wouldn't do it again. http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/cardiff-news/2009/09/17/police-to-clamp-down-on-blackwood-boy-racer-cruisers-91466-24711068/

The traditional police punishment of a slapped wrist just isn't enough, hitting the idiots where it hurts, in the wallet, so they can't buy crap rear spoilers and tinted lights, is just what's needed. It sounds very much like the OP's son was up to something other than not indicating at a roundabout. Whatever it was he did wrong I am sure he won't be doing it again anyway.

I am sure most of these cruisers are guilty of insurance fraud too, either with undeclared modifications or policy fronting.

maninthestreet wrote: »

On just the say-so of an individual police officer? I don't think so.
Giving the police the powers of judge and jury is bound to be lead to abuses.

I agree with you, although cannot suggest a more effective way of dealing with idiots on the road.

maninthestreet

anewman wrote: »

The police need to use these powers at McDonalds in Blackwood and on Blackwood High Street. They cause a right menace to other road users and I am sure if this was the result of their offensive behaviour they wouldn't do it again.

The traditional police punishment of a slapped wrist just isn't enough, hitting the idiots where it hurts, in the wallet, so they can't buy crap rear spoilers and tinted lights, is just what's needed.

The power of seizure needs to be in the hands of the courts alone, not handed out to the police acting as prosecutor, judge and jury all rolled into one. To get a Section 59 warning merely requires someone to make a complaint to the police concerning a car registered in your name. A second one, and the car gets seized, without reference to any court, and without any chance of the alleged offender to even challenge the evidence against them in a court of law - how is that justice?? It's open to abuse, and is being abused.

anewman

Although the courts are already stretched to the max, and there's hundreds of anti-social drivers out there.

Perhaps the law would be more acceptable to you if recorded video evidence of such offences was essential. One recorded offence + warning on record, next video recording and that's the car towed away. That way when someone complains they got the wrong end of this law, all they have to do is look at the video evidence and either sack the police officers responsible for abuse, or tell the crims to take a hike or they'll get their car seized again.

Inactive

Most of them are covered by CCTV Camera's anyway.;)

maninthestreet

anewman wrote: »

Although the courts are already stretched to the max, and there's hundreds of anti-social drivers out there.

Perhaps the law would be more acceptable to you if recorded video evidence of such offences was essential. One recorded offence + warning on record, next video recording and that's the car towed away. That way when someone complains they got the wrong end of this law, all they have to do is look at the video evidence and either sack the police officers responsible for abuse, or tell the crims to take a hike or they'll get their car seized again.

Failing to indicate at a roundabout isn't really anti-social is it?
With the law as it stands, anyone can who has a grudge to bear against you can make malicious allegations to the police about your driving, knowing that your can can be seized as a result and they will never be asked to stand up in a court under oath to have their evidence subject to the approriate scrutiny.

anewman

maninthestreet wrote: »

Failing to indicate at a roundabout isn't really anti-social is it?

We only have the OP's word that that's what happened. Do you think young lads go on a cruise driving like to$$ers then go home and tell their mother?! Well they probably have to say something when the car gets towed, but it won't be I was driving like an idiot round maccy d's drive through for hours on end.

Inactive

anewman wrote: »

We only have the OP's word that that's what happened. Do you think young lads go on a cruise driving like to$$ers then go home and tell their mother?! Well they probably have to say something when the car gets towed, but it won't be I was driving like an idiot round maccy d's drive through for hours on end.

Spot on, they are moronic imbeciles, they deserve all they get.:mad:

If it was my Son, I would have not have been coming on here trying to defend his activities.