Basic Network questions with sad diagram

RobertoMoir

RobTang wrote: »

I think dual runs is a bit paranoid, unless you have mice constantly chewing on your electrics Its probably a waste of time, Id probably go for 2 switches one upstairs and one downstairs, with just a run connecting the switches, it will save at lot on cabling.

True that he probably doesn't need two cables per socket but I'm renovating my house at the moment and putting in network cable, and I've gone for doubles. If you're doing the wiring yourself its just as easy to run two wires to a location while you've got floors up, putting in trucking / channelling into walls and its better to have two and only use one than need two and have one. It costs a bit more, obviously, but only the OP knows if the cost pushes past their comfort zone.

Part of my attitude I suspect is because networking is my day job and I'm just used to having doubles run everywhere. I'm not saying I'm right, just how I see things!

RobTang wrote: »

There arn't a lot of gigabit routers because they arn't really needed in a home enviroment, unless your shuffling gigabyte files around constantly or doing a lot of replciation (eg windows domain) its just not needed.

Also true, I do seem to recall HP have an 8 port 1Gb switch going for about £50/60 though. Not exactly cheap as chips but not outrageous for someone who has the money needed to undertake this kind of project in the first place. Get that and plug it into the router and things should be golden.

timbim_2

the patch panel could in theory be mounted any way you want, if you're putting in shelves you can just attach it underneath one with a pair of angle brackets or something, or you could get a small rack stand reasonably cheaply.

exup

timbim wrote: »

the patch panel could in theory be mounted any way you want, if you're putting in shelves you can just attach it underneath one with a pair of angle brackets or something, or you could get a small rack stand reasonably cheaply.

Yup you could mount a patch panel pretty easy.
One reason for a patch panel would be it frees up your options with regards to hardware that you use, and you also said that you may want to expand the network in the future.
A patch panel (or similar) could give you redundant sockets which you wire up to in the future.
Also if the switch or router goes kaput then it wouldnt be too much of a hassle removing / plugging the equipment back in.
Trouble shooting would be made easier as you can trace each room easier to the panel if you find that a PC isnt connecting > through the panel to the switch . . .

As for cabling. There can be problems with interference from RF sources, crosstalk (between wires in the cable).
Cat5 and above usually have shielding to protect them from RFnoise, and the internal wires are twisted to reduce crosstalk. However when untwisting the wires when terminating the cables (connecting them to the RJ45's) then a little bit of crosstalk can be expected. This is pretty low usually, but poorly terminated cables can cause more problems. Recommend that if you terminate the cables yourself, you dont expose any more than 10mm of wires at the ends. << terminating cables is pretty easy but like anything - you get better with a bit of practice.

For shorter ethernet cables you can bulk buy at places like screwfix which make them pretty cheap - about the same if you made them yourself anyway, which would be OK for the short runs between the modem, router, switch and patch panel. But between rooms would require cables made to length.

One thing to remember with wireless though - It is half duplex, communication goes only one way at a time - not usually a problem with 1 or 2 wireless devices connecting to a router, but once you get over 6 pieces of equipment trying to communicate with a standard domestic wireless router, you may find latency problems as each piece of equipment has to queue for its turn.

Bikertov

OK - lots of people have given opinions, so little to add as such, but thought it worth adding my experiences ...

I cabled my house when we renovated, and put in 72 CAT6 cables, back to a central point in the workshop/garage. This was a minimum of 4 cable to each room - in pairs, two to diagonal opposites of the rooms usually. More to the main bedroom, lounge, office, loft room etc. Also ran 2 out to the bottom of the garden, ready for the summer house this year.

I also ran a load of coax, usually 1 with each CAT6 pair, and multiple (8) to the roof for TV/FM aerial and a future satellite dish. TV is fed from the aerial downlead via an 8 port distribution amplifier, via a coax patch panel. Once I go satellite, I will use a switch for this, allowing all 4 feeds (H/V, Hi/Lo) to distribute around.

The central point is where the BT line comes in, so I tap off for broadband there with a filtered BT faceplate, so no more filters needed round the house. All wired phone points can then be cabled out from here via patch panels over the CAT6, as can any network connections. Faceplates in each room are mainly dual BT/RJ45 on a single size faceplate. That is where 2 cables to each room comes in - you can have a network and a phone point. The cable is relatively cheap, especially if you buy it in boxes (of 305m). It is far more expensive to run 'one more cable' in a years time after you have decorated ...

Regarding gigabit switches, you don't need a gigabit ROUTER, as your Broadband in unlikely to be faster than 24MB, so the speed of the router connection need only be 100MB. You can connect the router to a gigabit switch, and then use this as your network 'backbone' at gigabit speed internally to the house.

You only need an 8 or 12 port switch, as that is the most active connections you would expect to have. Terminate the rest on either a patch panel (cheapest, easiest) or a row of quad RJ45 faceplates on the wall. Then use RJ45 patch leads (not from Currys etc at £15+ each - get them from real IT suppliers for 40p each - YES 40p ...). Much neater, and easier to change things around.

Cabling-wise, CAT5e cable is fine, although a lot of cable is now CAT6 anyway, and not much different in price. For domestic use, any PROPER CAT5 cable will be sufficient as it must comply to the standards.

Is this, and what others have suggested overkill ? YES - at the moment. But then a senior exec at IBM (allegedly) once said there would only be a market for 5 computers in the WHOLE WORLD ...

The thing is, you don't know what will be happening in a few years time. But CAT5 / CAT6 can be used for a lot of things.

RobertoMoir

Bikertov wrote: »

OK - lots of people have given opinions, so little to add as such, but thought it worth adding my experiences ...

I cabled my house when we renovated, and put in 72 CAT6 cables, back to a central point in the workshop/garage. This was a minimum of 4 cable to each room - in pairs, two to diagonal opposites of the rooms usually. More to the main bedroom, lounge, office, loft room etc. Also ran 2 out to the bottom of the garden, ready for the summer house this year.

That's a lot of wiring. I can't knock it but it would feel too much like bringing work home with me to have all that going on.

I know I said I was running a bit of cable myself but I just want to stream interweb, movies and music around the house from a central "server cupboard"!

TheSaint_2

Rather than go to all the huge trouble of cabling up your house have you considered ethernet over power?

http://www.netgear.co.uk/wallplugged_ethernet_bridge_xe102.php

It might work out cheaper when you consider cabling, ripping up floors, switches etc.

Bikertov

TheSaint wrote: »

Rather than go to all the huge trouble of cabling up your house have you considered ethernet over power?

http://www.netgear.co.uk/wallplugged_ethernet_bridge_xe102.php

It might work out cheaper when you consider cabling, ripping up floors, switches etc.

Firstly, I was renovating anyway.

Secondly, we are not just talking ETHERNET, but anything that can run over CAT5 cabling - eg Telephone, alarm, CCTV, etc, etc.

Thirdly - from the Netgear site you linked to ...
Transfers data at speeds up to 14 mbps, faster than 802.11b wireless
Compatible with 10 Mbps or 10/100 Mbps Ethernet products

So NOT 100MB, let alone Gigabit speeds ...

Not saying it is not an option in SOME cases, but not what is being evolved in the discussion here ?

Bikertov

RobertoMoir wrote: »

That's a lot of wiring. I can't knock it but it would feel too much like bringing work home with me to have all that going on.

Yes, bringing work home a bit. But where else can I put my years of experience into practice ??

As I did a lot myself, it was quite cheap - I certainly would not get a cabling contractor in for that amount !!

TheSaint_2

Fair enough, just thought I would give you the option You are right on the speed - would be fine for most "normal" people.

Bikertov

TheSaint wrote: »

Fair enough, just thought I would give you the option You are right on the speed - would be fine for most "normal" people.

Are you trying to say I am not normal :eek:

Sounds like a few people on this thread fall into that category :rotfl: