Mattress help!!

Tim_Deegan

Mob-Mat-Man wrote: »

Regarding which mattress is the best: This is like saying which car is the best. Look at what is on the inside - Model names and manufacturer's name really does not count for anything. Component parts and the price asked for such should be what you are comparing. If £200 can get 1000 pocket springs why on earth would you want to spend £200 on a cage sprung system no matter what is covering it?

Hi John.

It is so good to have someone else in these forums who knows the bed trade, but isn't just trying to get a sale.

There was just one thing that I don't agree with 100%. There are some very poor quality pocket sprung mattresses on the market (I'm not saying yours are), and as a general rule a double pocket sprung mattress for under £200 would be very low quality, with low spec fillings. So as we can't see inside most of the mattresses that we are asked about, and there are some very good open coil sprung mattresses on the market, then I would always say if in doubt go for a top of the range open coil sprung rather than an entry level pocket sprung that is of questionable quality.

Tim_Deegan

As Mob-Mat-Man is a new member he obviously can't post a link on here. So as I think everyone should be able to see these three videos, then I will post them for him..........I hope that is ok John?


This one is a comparrison between a big brand name continuous sprung mattress, and a pocket sprung mattress for the same price: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yptkOviw6cs


This one shows the different types of fillings used in mattresses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDfOvCJJtqI


This one shows how pocket spring work inside the mattress, but unfortunately doesn't compare them to other spring types. Maybe that could be your next video John? : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqyaP6Bwj0g

Mob-Mat-Man

Tim_Deegan wrote: »

Hi John.

It is so good to have someone else in these forums who knows the bed trade, but isn't just trying to get a sale.

There was just one thing that I don't agree with 100%. There are some very poor quality pocket sprung mattresses on the market (I'm not saying yours are), and as a general rule a double pocket sprung mattress for under £200 would be very low quality, with low spec fillings. So as we can't see inside most of the mattresses that we are asked about, and there are some very good open coil sprung mattresses on the market, then I would always say if in doubt go for a top of the range open coil sprung rather than an entry level pocket sprung that is of questionable quality.

Hi Tim and everyone, and thanks for the posting the links to the videos.
I know / knew the Pocket Spring v Cage Spring is where we will/would agree to differ .

And, as you rightly say 'The general rule', for a 1000 pocket sprung mattress under £200 would indeed be perceived as low quality - but, there are exceptions.
The mattresses that were cut open in the video was done to highlight the fact that despite the label branding, it is what is on the inside that should count.

The SN M3 mattress was just one sided / barely 1" profiled foam / basic insulator / I would guess the polyester layer was 600g (I am not privvy to SN specs but I would say this is a very good guess) / The continuous springs were obvious / The outward finish was good and I can understand that most of the production cost was on the aesthetic appearance rather than the content. This is what SN does very well but as we both know the content dosn't follow for the prices being asked.

The mattress I was comparing it against was the one in question (£175 Double ) Double Sided - 1000 pocket springs - just to prove the point that pound for pound, and totally disregarding branding a consumer can get rakes more mattress for their money if they know what to look for.
.
The spec on the comparison mattress is Double Sided / 1000 pocket springs (Agro) - Polypad Insulator / 300g layer of Poyester on top of 850g Polyester (1150g each side) Both Sides!

Returning back to the question of dubious pocket springs, you're certainly right. There are some right dodgy ones - some with as little as 3 turns. There is also, as you will know a dearth of Chinese Springs coming into this country and any manufacturer who uses these to save what amounts to pence on the quality of the springs will be certainly avoided by any scrupulous retailer. And don't get me started on Chinese fillings and foams.

As retailers, we select our manufacturers - The same way a customer selects his or her retailer based on service, knowledge and product choice. No decent manufacturer who has the notion that quality counts in their products will ever entertain using an inferior component. But.. we both know there are some that do.

One of the major spring manufacturers is Agro Iternational (Germany) used by many, if not all, of the best independant manufacturers. Waddings and fibres will no doubt come from John Cotton, Latex by Sapsa, Foams from British Vita or Recticel, and so on.

Reputable retailers will (or should) know what to avoid and what to accept as components for the products they are going to sell. The hard part for a consumer is finding the reputable retailer - very much like finding a reputable mechanic. Once you have found him, stick with him.

And so to conclude, if a reputable retailer offers a mattress for £200 and tells their customer that they cannot get better for their money - then the customer has two options. Either, place their trust in the retailer or trawl the minefield of mattresses and gamble that they know best.

Incidentally, my next video will be another mattress slash - This time a Rest Assured Pillow top mattress - just to prove the point of how hopeless and useless this type of construction is.

Many Thanks and no doubt I'll see you at the show,

John

Tim_Deegan

Many thanks John.

I'll look foreward to seeing the new video, as I have been warning against pillow top mattresses for years, and actually refuse to sell them myself.

appletree

So what's wrong with pillowtops?
I'm looking at 2 pillowtops, a Miracoil 7 Nova Dream or Pocketzing indulgent from the devil (Silentnight) Only because they retail at over £800 and I've sourced for under £450 for Kingsize which seems a reasonable price/quality ratio.
Advice appreciated.

TiTheRev

appletree wrote: »

So what's wrong with pillowtops?
I'm looking at 2 pillowtops, a Miracoil 7 Nova Dream or Pocketzing indulgent from the devil (Silentnight) Only because they retail at over £800 and I've sourced for under £450 for Kingsize which seems a reasonable price/quality ratio.
Advice appreciated.

Have you read nothing in the half dozen preceeding posts?! :eek:

Mrs_Imp

We went to one of the larger stores where they had a fancy advertising gizmo. You lie on a mattress and it measures your pressure points. They then input this in to a computer along with height, weight and any pains, and come up with the best mattress. Obviously this type of thing was done by bed specialists without the aid of computers long ago, but gizmos are good for business! The result came back that I needed a soft mattress and Imp needed a hard mattress, so they made one up for us with soft one half and hard the other.

I have to say that I've not slept better in ages. I now wake up in the morning and don't creak.

Anyway, what I think I'm trying to say is, you need to speak to a mattress specialist/lie on a gizmo to assess the best type of mattress for you. What you think is comfy in the shop may be agony after 7 hours sleep.

Oh, and never go mattress shopping when you're tired. They all seem really comfortable.

appletree

Ok, a quick point that no one else has made... maybe Silentnight, Sealy ect do spend a wad on advertising and that's where some of our money goes but they also have an expensive brand to protect, selling crap beds wouldn't wash for long...? I work in computers and I'll bet you're all using a Dell to type these messages on? We'll guess what, they use the cheapest components so you can buy a laptop that is value for money.

Anyway, I HAVE read every word of this forum but I didn't see a reason not to but a pillowtop? Just people saying they don't sell them and that we shouldn't buy them... but why not? Will they explode? Melt our skin? Give me Bird Flu? I just see an extra comfy layer, even if it's not 3" think goose down! Every bed I've tried feels sumptous when it has that extra layer and the bed still has a sleep support system underneath?

I do agree with all that is said in preceding posts and thank them for their wisdom as I am now better armed with information but if you halve the prices of the name brands then surely it's hard to argue that you're not getting value for money? Even if they're filled with rat hair and not goose down. It's been said over and over - you don't really know what's in it anyway!

Having weighed everything up I'm off to buy either a Miracoil 7 Nova Dream or a Pocketzing Indulgent for £450 unless anyone can tell me why that's not good value for money? I'll be buying it from one of the 2 local independant stores who both say these are best sellers and there's nothing wrong with them at this price(although they'd point me elsewhere if they were £800).

You're advice is appreciated...

Tim_Deegan

Mrs_Imp wrote: »

We went to one of the larger stores where they had a fancy advertising gizmo. You lie on a mattress and it measures your pressure points. They then input this in to a computer along with height, weight and any pains, and come up with the best mattress. Obviously this type of thing was done by bed specialists without the aid of computers long ago, but gizmos are good for business! The result came back that I needed a soft mattress and Imp needed a hard mattress, so they made one up for us with soft one half and hard the other.

I have to say that I've not slept better in ages. I now wake up in the morning and don't creak.

Anyway, what I think I'm trying to say is, you need to speak to a mattress specialist/lie on a gizmo to assess the best type of mattress for you. What you think is comfy in the shop may be agony after 7 hours sleep.

Oh, and never go mattress shopping when you're tired. They all seem really comfortable.

I presume you are talking about the Sleep to Live gimmick?

This system will most of the time recommend two different levels of firmness. Which of course means that you will buy one of their mattresses rather than another brand. And also means that you will pay far more than you would have done otherwise.

Although you find yours very comfortable, there are a number of down sides to the STL system:

• It doesn't take into account personal preference, instead it tells you what you should like.
• It contains two single spring units, and some people have complained about them developing a ridge in the middle of the mattress.
• The mattresses are non turn, and so won't last as long. Also if you rotate it head to toe, then it means changing which side of the bed you sleep on. Most people like t always sleep on the same side of the bed.
• It contains reflex foam, encapsulated pocket springs, which don't give as good support, and the fact that air can't circulate around the the spring layer as easily means that the mattress could be very warm.

Tim_Deegan

appletree wrote: »

Ok, a quick point that no one else has made... maybe Silentnight, Sealy ect do spend a wad on advertising and that's where some of our money goes but they also have an expensive brand to protect, selling crap beds wouldn't wash for long...? I work in computers and I'll bet you're all using a Dell to type these messages on? We'll guess what, they use the cheapest components so you can buy a laptop that is value for money.

The difference is that my Dell computers have been very reliable. A mattress with a life of 12 to 18 months is not. The most unreliable models are those that contain the Miracoil or Posturetech spring systems. These are a continuous spring system that used to be ussed by most bed manufacturersh However most have stopped using it because it is so unreliable and so noisey.

appletree wrote: »

Anyway, I HAVE read every word of this forum but I didn't see a reason not to but a pillowtop? Just people saying they don't sell them and that we shouldn't buy them... but why not? Will they explode? Melt our skin? Give me Bird Flu? I just see an extra comfy layer, even if it's not 3" think goose down! Every bed I've tried feels sumptous when it has that extra layer and the bed still has a sleep support system underneath?

There are quite a few posts explaining what is wrong with pillow tops:
Most pillow tops are filed with loose fillings. They will feel very comfortable when new, but in time the fillings can start to move about, and this can leave you sleeping in a hollow. If it was just a quilt that wasn't sewn onto the mattress, then you could give it a good shake in order to even out the fillings again, but you can't shake a mattress. Also a pillow top makes a mattress non turn, so it won't last as long.

appletree wrote: »

I do agree with all that is said in preceding posts and thank them for their wisdom as I am now better armed with information but if you halve the prices of the name brands then surely it's hard to argue that you're not getting value for money? Even if they're filled with rat hair and not goose down. It's been said over and over - you don't really know what's in it anyway!

Having weighed everything up I'm off to buy either a Miracoil 7 Nova Dream or a Pocketzing Indulgent for £450 unless anyone can tell me why that's not good value for money? I'll be buying it from one of the 2 local independant stores who both say these are best sellers and there's nothing wrong with them at this price(although they'd point me elsewhere if they were £800).

£450 is very expensive for a mattress that contains a continuous spring system, which is actually a variation on the far more reliable open coil spring system. I personally wouldn't pay £100 for one.