had a crash today :(

adg1

dacouch wrote: »

Enterprise are a Credit Hire Company (They do it in house), the OP has probably signed a crediut agreement which makes him responsible for the costs if Enterprise cannot recover them from the other party

Spot on.

The group A car the insurers issue automatically gets billed out at a tiny rate. If Enterprise can flip it to be a non-fault claim against a 3rd party insurer then they can bill out rates in line with the Association of British Insurers - about 3 times as high for the same car, plus they get the chance to upgrade the customer to a far larger like for like vehicle.

The flip side is (and this is true for every company who offer this service - ERAC/DriveAssist/etc) that you will be chased to cover the cost for the rental upgrade if it goes pearshaped.

In this instance, I don't ERAC should touch this claim and turn it to a non-fault hire as there is an element of doubt due to circumstances. There are two areas that will, under a genreal rule of thumb, end up being split 50/50 unless someone takes responsibility - these are roundabouts and changing lanes.

We can see from the OP that the other driver is probably at fault, but each insurer will argue that the other is to blame and this leads to the split decision.

There would be too much risk of it going to a split decision for ERAC to confidently state that OP has a a definite claim, so, unless they get written confirmation from the third party insurers that their insured accepted liability then stick to the group a-manual vehicle and argue for a £5 per day Astra upgrade which they'll probably take.

I used to work for ERAC and there endeth my tuppence worth.

dacouch

Nice post adg1

Some of the CH companies now do offer insurance against the CH company pursuing you for the costs if they cannot recover them.

It annoys me that the CH companies do not fully always explain how CH works to potential clients.

Out of interest did you see many cases where ERAC claimed against the hirer when they could not recover the cost and did you have any big ones. The biggest I've read of was about £16000

adg1

TBH not really.

I wasn't party to that information but there were a few legendary ones like you mention.

Things may have changed since I left, but I don't think they'd push too much. As a company they place far too much emphasis on customer satisfaction surveys and repeat business so to lose people by chasing them for fees for something ERAC pushed them to do would be suicide for these ratings.

Their trainees and staff can only get promoted when satisfaction surveys on their branch is above corporate average so they won't want to jeopardise this.

On the flip side, they wouldn't try to flip something they weren't pretty sure of for the same reason.

bikingbarney

just a quick update, i have returned the hire car back to enterprise and as i had an accident in it enterprise have taken my £500 excess!!!

also got my car back but not happy with the quality of the repair so that is going back in on monday to be corrected.

also my insurance company still have had no reply from the insurers of the car that hit me on boxing day.

he is insured with saga and apparently they are known for dragging their feet!!

DaveMacD

bikingbarney wrote: »

he is insured with saga and apparently they are known for dragging their feet!!

Maybe they don't just insure old folk, maybe they work for them too....

dacouch

Surely their name (Saga) gives you an indication of their claims service...

andiansm

50/50 is what will happen, as per case law below


Grace v Tanner

[2003] All ER (D) 377 (Feb)

Court: CA

Judgment Date: 27/02/2003

NEGLIGENCE - DUTY OF CARE - MOTORIST - ACCIDENT AT ROUNDABOUT - DUTY TO BE AWARE OF OTHER ROAD USERS ON ROUNDABOUT
The defendant was driving along a main road. She came across a roundabout. She wished to carry straight on along the main road, which left the roundabout at between 10 and 11 o'clock. She drove round the roundabout, believing her exit would be at 12 o'clock. She came across the exit at between 10 and 11 o'clock, and realised that it was the exit she needed. However, she believed it was too late to turn and so carried on around the roundabout. As she did so, the claimant, riding a motorcycle, pulled across to take that exit and in so doing touched the back of the defendant's car, causing an accident. The claimant issued proceedings for damages, alleging that the defendant had been negligent. The judge held that the defendant had not been to blame, as she had made no sudden movements, but that the claimant had failed to keep a proper look out. Accordingly, she dismissed the claim. The claimant appealed on the ground that the judge had not addressed the possibility that both parties might have been negligent.
Held - The appeal would be allowed. When a driver approached a roundabout, passed one exit, and saw another in front of him that he thought was not the one that he wanted, that driver should be aware that there might be somebody who wanted to leave the roundabout at that exit. The defendant had forgotten that, and in the circumstances that had been negligent. The appeal would accordingly be allowed, and liability apportioned 50/50 between the claimant and the defendant.

lyndorset

Why is everyone going on about checking mirrors? You MUST check your blind spot and check it again.

Lane discipline is essential, if he pulled into the lane you were in the blame is his, you need to prove that you were driving with due care and attention. Speak to an advanced driving instructor or a traffic cop, check with them the law - you could phone DSA for advice, but you need to ensure your corrospondence to insurance is truthful, but does not leave out something important that you might have taken for granted or do not realise the significance of. If it is as you describe it is his fault. But the onnus is on you to prove such.

But everyone dont rely on your mirrors look over your shoulders too - and try a little test look in mirror then look over shoulder quite often there will be something there you did not expect.

bikingbarney

we are still waiting for an outcome on this, saga seem to be taking forever to respond to my insurance company.

when my insurers did manage to get trough to them saga told them they are holding me at full liability????

this was until my insurance asked if they had actually spoke to their client and that we have photos etc which show that he is totally in the wrong!!

this is a copy of the statement i sent my insurance.........

Privilege Motor Insurance.
Claim number.


On the 26th December 2009 at around 11.55, I was driving on the Lydiate Ash roundabout (M5/J4). The very next exit was the A38 North.


Following correct lane discipline and in compliance with the lane indicator arrows I was travelling in the middle of three lanes expecting to take the next exit onto the A38 north. The lane arrow indicators assured me this was the correct lane for this manouvre. As there was another car occupying the left-most lane I remained in the central lane to take the exit onto the outside lane of the A38 North.


As the lights changed to green I moved forward in my lane, heading onto the A38 north, at the same time indicating to other drivers that my intention was to go A38 north. I was aware that the silver subaru forester was to the left of me and almost half a car behind. My car was now parallel to the right hand lane of the A38 when the surbaru hit my nearside front wheelarch and passenger door.


My car came to rest in the ouside lane of the A38 north . The Subaru Forester driver then managed to join me on the A38 north where we both pulled onto the side-road to exchange particulars.


The police were called but did not attend.


I believe the driver of the Subaru Forester () is totally responsible for this accident because:-

• He was not complying with lane discipline.
• He should not have been in the leftmost lane unless turning left at that junction; he went straight ahead.
• The impact damage on my vehicle clearly shows that the other driver struck my car .
• I believe there was time for him to brake and avoid the collision completely.
• I believe he was driving without due care and attention.
• He hit my car, I did not hit his.

Having followed lane discipline to the letter I am completely without blame for this incident. I am not prepared to accept any liability for this accident and if necessary I am prepared to go to court to defend my position.


Conditions- Dry, bright.
Speed - <20mph.
Vehicles. Ford Focus Cmax (), Subaru Forester ()
Damage – Front wing dented and scratched, front passenger door dented and scracthed , marks on rear door. Front wheel bearing now grumbling and making nosie too.


Injuries – My passenger and rear passenger suffered injuries to the legs and back.
Police – cotnacted but did not attend
Independent witnesses – None


I declare that these details are a true and honest account of the accident.





what do you think?

DirectDebacle

bikingbarney wrote: »

what do you think?

Clear concise account. To emphasise the other drivers lack of attention you could have mentioned what the lane markings indicated for the lane he was in.

You are correct to dispute liability under these circumstances.

Good luck.