help. Xmas do... suspected of doing DRUGS!!!!!!

wontfallforit

Anihilator wrote: »

ns. The OP then acted in an inappropiate manner and whilst they would probably struggle to dismiss on the drug use they wont struggle to dismiss on the aggressive and threatening behaviour.

I know exactly what you're saying, but someone saying 'f-off' to a manager who has made some pretty outrageous and unfounded accusations, after a few too many drinks, seems like a fairly tame reaction to me.

Could the OP's behaviour be construed as threatening/aggressive? Yes
Is it likely that the manager actually felt intimidated? Probably not

Not that this would give the OP licence to shout and swear, but it was the manager who brought up the allegations in the first place, from a ridiculous, almost comedic 'sniffing on the bog' scenario. Did the manager really expect a young, drunk man (there's no crime in being a bit tipsy off-duty) to say "oh flipping heck" when he was accused of drug-taking?

If there had been any physical evidence of drug use, I'd side with the manager, and advise the OP to join the dole queue. But apparently, there was no evidence. If the manager wanted to pick a professional fight for whatever reason, he went about it in entirely the wrong way.

The Op's previous "attitude" and "behaviour" are entirely seperate issues from "drug use". If the manager wanted to make a case about the OP, because he simply does not like him (i.e. attitude, etc.), it should've been taken up inside the workplace...not in an inappropriate setting in which people are expected to let their professional hair down a little.

Anihilator

wontfallforit wrote: »

I know exactly what you're saying, but someone saying 'f-off' to a manager who has made some pretty outrageous and unfounded accusations, after a few too many drinks, seems like a fairly tame reaction to me.

Could the OP's behaviour be construed as threatening/aggressive? Yes
Is it likely that the manager actually felt intimidated? Probably not

Not that this would give the OP licence to shout and swear, but it was the manager who brought up the allegations in the first place, from a ridiculous, almost comedic 'sniffing on the bog' scenario. Did the manager really expect a young, drunk man (there's no crime in being a bit tipsy off-duty) to say "oh flipping heck" when he was accused of drug-taking?

If there had been any physical evidence of drug use, I'd side with the manager, and advise the OP to join the dole queue. But apparently, there was no evidence. If the manager wanted to pick a professional fight for whatever reason, he went about it in entirely the wrong way.

The Op's previous "attitude" and "behaviour" are entirely seperate issues from "drug use". If the manager wanted to make a case about the OP, because he simply does not like him (i.e. attitude, etc.), it should've been taken up inside the workplace...not in an inappropriate setting in which people are expected to let their professional hair down a little.

Yes but the !!!! off comment was to another manager who approached and asked the OP to calm down/leave. - along with the comment he was lucky the guy didnt get punched

God only knows what he was saying to the manager who made the accusation.

hayley_jayne

The Op's previous "attitude" and "behaviour" are entirely seperate issues from "drug use". If the manager wanted to make a case about the OP, because he simply does not like him (i.e. attitude, etc.), it should've been taken up inside the workplace...not in an inappropriate setting in which people are expected to let their professional hair down a little.

Like wontfallforit I totally agree with this. There is a time and a place and I think it speaks volumes that a manager would think it ok to publicly make accusations like that.

I do not think you need to make a case about your performance in the workplace as that is not the issue. If your performance (or image, attitude etc) has not been raised with you through the appropriate channels then you could not be construed to having issues in that regard at all.

You have been given two things to defend, I agree with others that the drug issue without physical evidence or direct witnesses would be impossible for them to prove.

Again, as others have said the use of 'sustained' is concerning. Have there been issues with this guy before this night?

Yes but the !!!! off comment was to another manager who approached and asked the OP to calm down/leave. - along with the comment he was lucky the guy didnt get punched. God only knows what he was saying to the manager who made the accusation.

Anihilator, LOL, there were two people involved in this argument. I think it is really funny that you think the actions of the accused are the only ones that are valid . You should be a tabloid journalist :eek:, they are experts at bias. Oh, BTW, why the user name? I hope it isn't actually meant to mean somebody who wrecks total destruction? If it is, you really need spelling lessons .

Keep us updated.

H x

robredz

wontfallforit wrote: »

I know exactly what you're saying, but someone saying 'f-off' to a manager who has made some pretty outrageous and unfounded accusations, after a few too many drinks, seems like a fairly tame reaction to me.

Could the OP's behaviour be construed as threatening/aggressive? Yes
Is it likely that the manager actually felt intimidated? Probably not

Not that this would give the OP licence to shout and swear, but it was the manager who brought up the allegations in the first place, from a ridiculous, almost comedic 'sniffing on the bog' scenario. Did the manager really expect a young, drunk man (there's no crime in being a bit tipsy off-duty) to say "oh flipping heck" when he was accused of drug-taking?

If there had been any physical evidence of drug use, I'd side with the manager, and advise the OP to join the dole queue. But apparently, there was no evidence. If the manager wanted to pick a professional fight for whatever reason, he went about it in entirely the wrong way.

The Op's previous "attitude" and "behaviour" are entirely separate issues from "drug use". If the manager wanted to make a case about the OP, because he simply does not like him (i.e. attitude, etc.), it should've been taken up inside the workplace...not in an inappropriate setting in which people are expected to let their professional hair down a little.

Possibility that BOTH managers didn't like OP, so colluded in an attempt to discredit OP and goad him into retaliation to ground a complaint later. hope HR have some common sense and tell them to go away and put it down to too much falling down water loosening tongues.

I see the troll is still hungry also.

Zazen999

I suspect that the OP is on a company hit list - or the managers have been asked to start whittling down staff - and the OP has played into their hands.

u264047

No, my image has never been brought up by anyone, This year I have been working quite closely with HR and they flew me up to the Joint Venture they were setting up in Changzhou, China with a view to me getting a position out there in future once production has commenced (closer to wife's home city too so it would be ideal)

And no, as i've said I've never really had anything to do with this manager, I do ignore him when he comes down to visit, as i don't like to kiss a$$ quite as much as others in my company... I can't say that this is done in an obvious way, i do sometimes greet him as an afterthought.

He just doesn't like me... he's not the first. Probably won't be the last.

wontfallforit

Anihilator wrote: »

Yes but the !!!! off comment was to another manager who approached and asked the OP to calm down/leave.

Fair enough, I must've missed that part in these posts. Telling someone who is merely telling you to calm down to 'f-off' doesn't look good, but to be honest, I probably would've reacted the same. Not that it makes it right, but the thing is that the OP seems to have been both the victim and the purpetrator of a messy, unprofessional scenaio.

along with the comment he was lucky the guy didnt get punched

Well, I think that is only relevant if the OP actually outwardly expressed such feelings on the night. That would constitute aggressive/threatening behaviour in my book. Shouting and swearing when you've had a few drinks, and are being accused of outrageous things is one thing (given the circumstances, I find this highly unprofessional, but quite reasonable and understandable), but actually threatening violence is another. If the OP did threaten violence, regardless of the scenario, he should be disciplined for it. But the big thing is that you're surmising here - there's nothing to say (from the OP's posts) that he did threaten such a thing.

We need to stick with what the OP is saying, and not read between the lines. If the OP has been untruthful/innaccurate in any way, then that's his issue and it will surely show in his disciplinary hearings. However, what he's saying in his posts is specifically information that he's turned to MSE for advice over. If there are underlying issues that the OP is concealing (aside from the flimsy past issues of 'image' and 'attitude'), then the onus is upon him to deal with these during his disciplinary.

Either way, let's hope the truth comes out, and both the manager and OP are dealt with professionally. I'd be quite alarmed if hearsay and gossip made its way to HR's office.

hayley_jayne

Good luck with it

I think you have a good case for your own defense. Are you going to take out a separate grievance against this guy now or wait for the outcome of this investigation?

H x

jobbingmusician

I think you have a good case, as well.

Now, unpick what happened. There are TWO separate incidents AFAIK.

1. The OP was libelled, in front of colleagues.

2. LATER, the OP was abusive and possibly threatening to the person who had libelled him and another manager.

Have I got this right? Because if so, there is a strong defence to the second point - the OP was extremely upset by the first incident, and carried on drinking because he was upset. This drinking led to the second incident, for which the OP is extremely sorry (and the second incident happened well after the official end of any company event).

I agree that the OP should stick in a strong grievance against the manager for incident one. Also - OP - yes, I am willing to check statements etc. If you look at my past posts on this board, you will see I have previously advised on ETs here

happywarmgun

Turn it back on him. Tell him that you will be getting witness statements off every person he told you were a smack head confirming he told them this (whilst drunk!) - then tell him you are raising a company grievance - and also (bluff on this one) contacting a libel lawyer and will sue him till the pips squeak.

Tell him you'll drop all the above if he makes a full apology to all staff in front of you....