Anyone used Rointe heaters?

Richie-from-the-Boro

Notcheapdownhere wrote: »

Yes, 2 meters.
A white digital one (I think). I'm guessing that's for standard.
And the old style spinning disc analogue which I'm guessing is the off peak.

- wrong way round ........................... usually !
- here are two 2 rate meters [digital & spinning] side by side
- if the spinning is 'tailed' to off-peak it usually has a mechanical switch alongside it as per the photo
- its highly unlikely the digital is anything other than the off-peak cheap rate and radio-switched
- here is a digital AMPY - does it look like this ?

Your home is not an ex farmhouse wired building of an ex business premises is it ?

Notcheapdownhere

Yep, they look like the one in the pics.
The white digital one is standard tied to the off peak an!logue which has a radio link, I think.
After more investigating, apparently 70% of our electricity usage was off peak. The only thing that run on the off peak rcd ( if this makes sense as we have 2) are the storage heaters. Apparantly, 4 storage heaters used over 11000kw of electricity.
Please tell me that newer storage heaters will be cheaper to run?
Our property is just a normal 3 bed semi. The people we bought the house of lived here from when it was new. 1967.
The storage heaters have been installed after then as all the cabling for them is run surface.

Cardew

Notcheapdownhere wrote: »

. Apparantly, 4 storage heaters used over 11000kw of electricity.
Please tell me that newer storage heaters will be cheaper to run?
Our property is just a normal 3 bed semi.

Just dug out tariff.
Off peak is 10.33p per unit
And standard is 12.06p per unit.
2 of the storage heaters are big units that come about a foot of
the wall.
Our bill was 2k for 6 months.

Over what period was the 11,000kWh used - the 6 month period or 12 months? In any event 11,000kWh is not excessive for heating and hot water for a 6 month winter period in a house without cavity walls.

If you were on a decent Economy 7 tariff that 11,000kWh would have cost around £600 instead of the £1,130 on the tariff you quote.

New storage heaters will not produce any more heat than your old models. The main advantage is that the newer models apparently retain the heat better than the older models.

The disadvantage of all storage heaters to a greater or lesser degree, is that they 'leak' heat during the day. Although with your partner at home all day, that shouldn't be so much of a problem.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Notcheapdownhere wrote: »

Yep, they look like the one in the pics.
The white digital one is standard tied to the off peak an!logue which has a radio link, I think.
After more investigating, apparently 70% of our electricity usage was off peak. The only thing that run on the off peak rcd ( if this makes sense as we have 2) are the storage heaters. Apparently, 4 storage heaters used over 11000kw of electricity.
Please tell me that newer storage heaters will be cheaper to run?
Our property is just a normal 3 bed semi. The people we bought the house of lived here from when it was new. 1967.
The storage heaters have been installed after then as all the cabling for them is run surface.

If you are achieving a 70% use of the off peak-cheap rate you are to be congratulated, that's a very very good use of the system.

#367 """We thought we would see what the bills were for the first year before we decided what upgrades and changes to make""" Also a good idea, given that gas is not an option and in reality oil & leccy are the only 2 workable outcomes you have proved you were right to wait and test before jumping in.

# 367 I'm still not clear how you water is heated, I'm assuming unless you tell me otherwise that is part of the BDX tariff. Ditto I'm not clear that your water heating even if it is part of the BDX tariff is in a PARTL properly insulated [see #372] cylinder. I keep bringing this up because if the 365 days per year water heating is not part of the BDX system it will be at full price, 2 pence per unit more than your chap rate. Similarly if the water heating is not stored in a partL cylinder you will be loosing a lot of money per annum replacing wasted leeched heat.

#370 With what you describe as a """pretty well insulated but doesn't have cavity"" I would say that cavity is an issue and should be attended to, I accept [#370] the 70's extension is single skimmed wall, but I'm hard pressed to believe that a 1976 build does not have cavity walls as standard.

#368 ""£4k per annum is crazy. Many people are happy to pay for 'lifestyle' that's an individuals choice. BDX or E10 as I've already stated is the luxury end of electric heating at luxury rates. A cheap E7 tariff would immediately cut your costs by 30%ish with a corresponding loss of the luxury of top-up-heating of both water and space heating - this might also lead to needing an upgrade in your storage heating storage capacity.

The expense of changing your old [room heat & water heat] storage for new, of itself, will as stated lead to an improvement in comfort but not necessarily much savings on cost. Your current kWh storage capacity on BDX / E10 may need to be improved by extra storage capacity if you move from E10 to E7. However because you have a 70%/ 30% ratio night store is a very good choice certainly better than your only other alternative - oil.

Cardew & penrhyn mentioned upgraded storage [Dimplex / Creda are the same thing by the same company] the Quantum is a good but expensive system, I'm not convinced there is much cash savings in a new system though I accept they 'store' better, 'leak' less, are aesthetically pleasing, and certainly more responsive leading to better comfort levels - that does not like with like lead to any substantial savings.

Its difficult without being there but in ranked order (1) your badly insulated walls [and I suspect (2) under insulated loft and (4) water jacket] and (3) big windows are costing you. Is almost certainly the walls and the roof that are the biggest losers, moving to a Low-E rated glazing will certainly help. If you still have the old 70's aluminium windows they leech around 80% of the heat through the spacer bar, they were a carp design from the get-go.

Notcheapdownhere

Hey Ritchie,
I really appreciate you taking the time with me.
#367. I think the water is on standard rate. The tank doesn't have the boost at the top, or decent insulation. From what I can gather, the solar water heater on the roof provides the boost. The thermostat on the element I have set to 60 degrees so if the water temp drops below that then the immersion kicks in. I feel we are not getting the full benefit of this as we don't have a bath, just a big walk in electric shower. All the water is just going to waste really. We have decided to refit the bath to make use of it. I also don't understand why they didn't replace the tank when the upgrades were made? I will double check its not on off peak though.
#370. The house does have cavities but appear not to be filled. The usual tell tale signs aren't there. I can't believe that the pensioners who lived here before didnt have that but hey ho. It's on the list of things to do. The loft however is very well insulated, double insulation plus sellatex. I spent jubilee weekend in the loft doing it.
The windows I'm still trying to work out. The hall is a floor to ceiling window all the way along. It's going to have to be thick curtains.
The windows are good, well fitted with no draughts except one but that is going to be replaced.
I also spoke to southern electric about going onto economy 7. That is a necessity, problem is, it's 8p per unit off peak but standard goes up to 15p.
One thing is for sure, I don't want a 2k bill for 6 months again.

Richie-from-the-Boro

Water set to set to 60ºC is essential to avoid Legionella bacteria, they survive low temperatures and thrive and grow at temperatures between 20-45°C. Its a catch 22 with domestic water systems low temp helps reduce scaling but breeds pneumonia so you are right to keep it at 60ºC. As to cost, the cost at standard rate depends on how frequently the automated stat kicks in, it could be a couple of quid a month or a couple of quid [£500pa] a day - you need to know. There will be a megga difference on solar input twixt winter & summer.

Replacing the water cylinder with a partL would be cost effective in terms of loosing hot water to no insulation, but you declare an excess of hot water which you can't benefit from which leads me back to the issue of 'how frequently the automated stat kicks in'. If you did decide to replace a twin coil solar cylinder would be needed and 200 litre starts at around ± £500 retail. A bath a week let alone per day is an expensive option over 12 months if even E7 is used to heat water, a bath will use 3 times more than a shower at around 80 litres a pop.

Cavity - is it - isn't it - goto screwfix buy a tub of 'darbo' or two pack - then drill a few 200mm pilot holes in the apex of 4 bricks and see what's in there.

The difference between """8p per unit off peak but standard goes up to 15p""" is called storage. Store B]bank[/B enough cheap~stuff for your needs & lifestyle and you avoid the twice the price stuff, just REM to fill the hole when your done !

Window ["""I'm still trying to work out"""] Heat Loss Reduction Values are ish !

- secondary glazing + insulated shutters 77%
- secondary glazing + heavy curtains 66%
- stand alone insulated shutters 60%
- double-glazing 55%
- honeycomb blinds 36%
- modern insulated roller blinds 22%

Notcheapdownhere

Right gang, bear with me.
I'm looking into cavity wall insulation, turns out we don't have it.
Upgrading the heaters.
Replacing the tank and putting it onto the off peak.
There was a comment that if I went onto economy 7 my bill would be cut by at least 30%.
Now here is my idea, I quite like the idea of having some off peak electricity in the day. If I put my new(ish) storage heaters onto a timer so they only come on once a day instead of twice and wire my tumble dryer and washing machine through the off peak, technically I should save roughly 40%. Have I worked that out right?
My tariff will be 10.33 off peak. The heaters will be on 6 hours instead of 10. The tumble dryer, washing machine etc can be use on the same tariff in the evening instead of the 12p rate. All the other house stuff will be on the 12p rate instead of 15p.
Plus put the water heater on the 6 hour timer.
Have I gone wrong somewhere with my idea?

Richie-from-the-Boro

E7 does not have twice a day its what you get .. .. 7 only hours cheap stuff night-time only, delivered in one go ... period .. .. not 6 hours, not 8 hours, just 7 hours at night that's why its called E7.

Use of tumble drier and seeking so cut your leccy bills are counterpoint, in other words it, the (1) tumble drier is using a very considerable amount of 'unnecessary' energy, it the tumble drier, replacing the (2) water cylinder with a PartL on E7 tariff and (3) showers not baths, and what you call your (4) immersion heater are the individual huge user's of leccy you can easily cut out - without any cost - if you want to save money.

It's an expensive lifestyle choice you may wish to keep, but counter productive, why spend thousands on upgrading insulation or the heating system in order to squander those savings by running a tumble drier. Its the equivalent of screwing a 2 kilowatt fire to the outside wall of your house and switching it on multiplied by how many hours per year.

Again per an earlier # I've no idea where you get a cheap rate of """12p rate""" it should be nearer the rate of 6.025p figure I gave you earlier.

Check the period of hours that what you describe as your electric immersion heater solar topup is actually drawing expensive daytime electricity. Until you persuade me differently I'd guess that most of the last 4 or more months almost all of your hot water you paid for at expensive day rate.

Notcheapdownhere

The 12p rate is what we pay standard on peak.
The electricity board mentioned about going onto e7 but they quoted 8p off peak and 15p standard. We can't change supplier just yet until we pay off the outstanding balance, but I'm sure I can get cheaper.
The hot water I will agree with you on, I'm sure that's on the day rate. That is going to be changed ASAP.
The tumble dryer is used a lot. We have 3 young kids so although we can cut down its still needed. It needs to be on the off peak cct.
At the moment we get 6 hours off peak early in the morning and 4 hours in the eve.
6 hours will be ideal for the heaters and the 4 hours for the appliances.

penrhyn

12p electricity peak rate? Sounds a bit low to me, does that include VAT, or the standing charge?