Why do tube drivers earn twice as much as bus drivers?

The_White_Horse

i hate lefties!!!!!!!!

Zelie

Hi, I'm a tube driver so can probably answer a lot of your questions.

Firstly, bear in mind that TfL does not employ most bus drivers. Of the approximately 46 bus companies in London only one is owned and operated by TfL. The others are private companies which operate their own rules and contracts and are permitted to do things like use TfL livery and associate with TfL so long as they meet certain standards regarding passengers, routes, prices etc. What this basically means is I haven't a clue what each company pays it's drivers and I haven't a clue if that includes things like shift work allowances. I'm guessing that most of the companies pay roughly a similar amount and also give things like overtime and payment for extreme hours.

As for tube drivers, quite some time back it was agreed that drivers would not be paid anything for shift work, and would not be permitted to work overtime*. To simplify things LUL wanted to give a fixed wage to drivers and that would be one which accomodates payment for the extreme hours - in other words, these payments are built in. (It was also decided that drivers would not get any public holidays although a day's annual leave would be given in lieu. The only public holiday we get is Christmas day and we don't get to choose when to take any of our other leave). So when you hear about tube drivers' wages bear in mind that's the whole thing. When you hear about bus drivers' wages you are talking about basic wage and not hearing about shift allowances etc.

In terms of the actual jobs, there's a huge difference. I've spoken to quite a few bus drivers and I'm pretty amazed at what they don't have to know. We have a phrase on the underground: 'you don't get paid for what you do, you get paid for what you KNOW'. Essentially a tube driver is driver, guard and mechanic. It takes a lot of training to be able to handle such a huge vehicle well and to know exactly what it's going to do - far longer than sixteen weeks! Each driver also has to know their stock inside out and how to fix the train if it breaks down. Bus drivers have to know how to call in a broken-down bus and wait by the roadside. Tube drivers also have to know routes, signalling, LUL and NR rules and regs and to know what to do if it all goes wrong. It's a job with a lot of responsibility and yes, a lot of the time it's ticking over nicely but when things go wrong (which happens more than you might think) we really earn the money. In terms of simplicity I'd far rather be a bus driver than a tube driver.

If anyone has anymore specific questions I'll be happy to answer them if I can.


*Slight lie. If our shift ends and we are halfway up a tunnel they'll pay us extra rather than have the train stopped and block everything. But we cannot have overtime as most people understand it.

Zelie

ILW wrote: »

£41k basic for 4 day week. Sundays and any extra is at enhanced rate. Averages out just over £50k
100% funded pension.
1 years ful sick pay for non work related sickness
etc etc.
I truly do respect Bob Crowe.

I'll just reply to this one since it's so inaccurate. We get £40,000 and work a 5-out-of-seven rota although we don't necessarily get rest days every week. We get a decent pension and definitely don't get any special treatment when it comes to sickness.

I can't remember who said pay per death but whoever it was, that's a ludicrous suggestion. It's real life, not a film.

Revenge_of_the_Red_Devil

Zelie, didn't someone say earlier that you only need 16 weeks training? If that's true then you obviously don't need to know very much.

Mr_Matey wrote: »

Also tube staff probably cop more abuse, and the suicides have been mentioned.

More abuse? They have almost no contact with passengers! Bus drivers are the ones who have to argue with mouthy kids who claim they're 12 despite the fact they're 6 foot tall. They have to argue with mums who want to bring a pram onto an already full bus. They have to deal with the idiots who get on using the back door to avoid paying.

I took buses regularly when I was younger and I felt for the drivers.

The_White_Horse

if your shift ends when you are in a tunnel, then that is bad timetabling. if it is because of a problem, then i would expect any decent person to finish the job. Its called doing the job. This is exactly the problem with union workers!!!

no real worker would even think of clocking off in the middle of something. if you were having an operation, do you think the surgeon should just walk off midway through if it was taking longer than expected? no, he would just finish the job.

i don't care what tube drivers say - 1000's could do your job with a few weeks training.

In fact, your job could go like the DLR. you are well overpaid. driving a tube should attract a salary of about 25k MAX

Zelie

Traindrivers are assaulted regularly. We get a lot of abuse which you'd think would be impossible given where we mostly work but somehow they manage. And it's not even your chav-types, it's often the business suits who think they are better than everyone and treat the place like it's their personal limo service. Which is not to dispute that bus drivers have a hard time. They most certainly do and probably should get better money for that job.

It takes a minimum of six months to train from 'scratch' although when we say scratch we tend to mean after at least six months on stations learning rules and regs etc. So essentially a year before you are OK to drive a train alone (and no, they don't drive themselves!). Even after that you are not really considered to be fully passed out until you've been driving for at least a year or two. We also have annual training and testing on all aspects of driving, defect-handling and emergency procedures such as fire etc. Those who also operate on Network Rail track will have additional training and testing.

The_White_Horse

who cares if there is a suicide???? you won't see it as they will fall below. the ones who have to clean the rails afterwards (on probably 16k) get my sympathy.

I saw someone jump in front of the tube once. the c**t just made me late for lunch. and as i tried to leave to walk to where i was going, the tube staff tried to help me by offering therapy!!!!! this is the trouble with unions. they all have issues and therapy and all rubbish to stop them working. this was just some fool killing themselves and delaying me.

In fact, i dunno why they clean up the track. just keep running the trains and they will get ground away eventually and the rats will finish the job.

Zelie

For future reference, I'm not going to be responding to anyone who posts abusively. If you ask me politely I'll be happy to answer as best I can.

The job does attract a salary of about £25k. But payments for extreme hours etc are then added on. And no, I don't think that most people would 'finish the job' if there's more to be done. How many people in Tesco agree to stay and check out another hundred customers when they've turned up at the end of their shift? None unless they are offered money.

Trains are held up for many reasons and a heck of a lot are passenger-related. It would be unfair to expect every driver to have to work overtime and miss their train home or be late picking up their child from school just because some brat has trashed a train or is messing with the doors and won't let the train leave. And bear in mind that on certain occasions everything just stops. I've sat for four hours* alone in a platform because some moron decided he wanted one of my colleagues to murder him. I can't go home because I have a train to babysit and I can't move because we are all waiting for the coroner to finish his game of golf or whatever. It's a job, I'm not volunteering for charitable reasons.

*Which does not mean I got four hours' overtime before anyone asks. Usually it's is counted in minutes. It's rare to even get half an hour's overtime.

Wookster

Zelie wrote: »

Traindrivers are assaulted regularly. We get a lot of abuse which you'd think would be impossible given where we mostly work but somehow they manage. And it's not even your chav-types, it's often the business suits who think they are better than everyone and treat the place like it's their personal limo service.

Typical of Bob Crowe's distaste for suited city workers :rolleyes:

Tube drivers are grotesquely overpaid. No union strikes as much as they do. I'm sure its not because tfl is the worst employer in the UK.

Zelie

It's nothing to do with distaste. It's just the reality that the kids in tracksuits and hoodies are often vastly more polite than people who could reasonably be expected to know better.

For the record, I've never been on strike and this is true of many of my colleagues. The RMT is one trade union among about four and has a reputation for kicking their toys out the pram for no particular reason. Sadly, they shout loudest and this is played up by the press so whenever people hear about tube staff they assume we are all members of the RMT.