Is this unreasonable re maintenance?

Kimitatsu

Just want to say thanks to all of you for the great advice that you have given this lady :beer::beer:

Gemma for those of us that have been through a divorce I just wish that these boards had been here because there is so much help if you know where to look. LazyDaisy is quite right, the maintenance for the children is seperate to the financial issues.

So child maintenance is paid as one parents contribution for bringing up the children and ensuring continuity in their lives, when you get divorced you can also ask Dad to pay for schoooling fees as part of the settlement, fees for anything they do regularly, maintenance for yourself as you work part time to bring up the children, you are entitled to a share of any assets that have been gained during the marriage, so his pension, any property, any investements, any items of value (antiques, cars, etc). All of that goes into the pot, and the court looks at the lifestyle before and the effect that it will have on you and the girls after the divorce and splits the assets accordingly and also awards maintenance as it sees fit (only for you, remit for the children goes through the CSA). They start at a 50/50 split, so if you were both earning the same amount of money with the same responsibilities then you would get half each, but as you earn considerably less then him, then they start to look at how they can make the settlement fairer so that you come out of it with assets, and maintenance to offset your caring responsibilities and the fact that you wont have a pension (or a huge one at any rate).

They will not take the flat from you, and if you wanted to you could move back into the matrimonial home and the court is likely to award you the ability to stay in there until your youngest has finished full time education, when the house will be sold and the assets split according to the order.

I realise that you only work part time currently but as you have said when little one is a bit older you can increase your hours, when it comes to it, check on the effect it will have on tax credits sometimes it is better off for you not to work full time just increase your hours a little.

Once you have got your maintenance payments sorted out (if for yourself by court order) through the CSA and you can show a regular pattern of payment (think it is two years but you would need to check) then those payments count as income for the purposes of a mortgage.

I realise at the moment that you are completely shell shocked and didnt see any of this coming, but as we have said you do need to seek legal advice sooner rather than later. You dont have to file the divorce petition before you are ready to do so and if you feel you want to make another go of it then you can always suspend proceedings but to protect yourself you need to get someone on your side who is looking out for your interests.

When I did mine I looked for a family law specialist, that was my starting point, as they know the ins and outs of what the courts will and wont accept, but they will also have large boxes of tissues to hand and will be able to sift out the bits that need looking at now and those that will wait until later.

If you need someone to talk to you can go to Relate by yourself, if your husband refuses to go. The court takes a very dim view of parents who refuse to attend mediation, they like to see parents sorting out as much by themselves rather than going through solicitors all of the time. So be prepared to organise some sessions and always turn up even if he refuses.

Need some coffee now to crank up my brain but will post more later as I think abou it

kingfisherblue

GG, can I back up what others have said about a good solicitor? I didn't think that my ex would act the way he did - friends have described him as having a complete personality transplant.

Our divorce was complicated, but for different reasons. One of our children is disabled and will need care for the rest of his life. My ex wanted me to sell the house, which has been adapted for our child's needs. I don't work, as I am my son's carer, so a mortgage was out of the question. Things were further complicated because my ex didn't tell his solicitor or barrister that our son has complex needs.

Fast forward and about eighteen months ago I was awarded the house (until either our son no longer needs a home, due to death, moving into a nursing home, or other circumstances, or until I remarry or cohabit, or until I die). Then the house will be sold and the proceeds split 50/50. In the meantime, I am paying the mortgage with the help of the DWP (I am on income support). Mt children have had enough upheaval, at least they have not had to move away fromt heir home, which is close to family that they love; it is also near to their schools and their friends.

I have also had to get a DEO throught he CSA as my ex deccided not to pay anything towards the upkeep of our children. We had been together for 19 years (married for 16) and I really thought I knew him. Things can change very quickly and can easily become unpleasant. Despite all this, I encouraged the children to see their dad every week (even when they didn't want to).

The point that I am trying to make is that I found a solicitor which specialised in family law and complex cases. My barrister had to travel in from a nearby city to represent me in court, as he had the expertise to act for me in my particular circumstances. I received all this from legal help, which will be repaid from the sale of the house or if I become employed. I never tried to take away his rights as a father, including the right to see his children. At the same time, I fought for the rights of my children. It is possible to do both.

I wish you luck x

Loopy_Girl

Morning GG - hope you are feeling more positive today:D

I forgot to say last night that you can get your tax credits backdated for up to 3 months so when you apply, ask them to have it backdated to the date you split up with your husband i.e effectively became a lone parent.

May only be 4 weeks or so but you'll get it as a little lump sum;)

Kimitatsu

GobbledyGook wrote: »

Lazy Daisy - you are right. I'll have to look into it carefully. A friend who is a legal eagle has emailed me tonight to say he wishes he'd known what was going on. He seems to think it would have been likely the girls and I would have been allowed to stay in the house.

Only just got to reading this thread in its entirety properly this morning (occassionally I sleep lol!) so just some further comments:

There's all sorts of shares and investments, some of which are in joint names and there's a trust fund of some sort for each of the girls. There's also 2 houses he lets out through an agency on buy-to-let mortgages. I really need to know what my name is attached to and what it's not if nothing else.

The investments and the equity are there to be divided between you as proceeds of the marriage so even if your name is not on them then you may be entitled to a share of it or to use it to offset against his share of the house/pension etc. If there are any debts in the marriage then these will also be taken into account but you need to make sure that anything in joint names, either he indemnifies you for (through a solicitor ideally) or you contact them to make arrangements to pay your half. Be aware that if he does not pay them then as joint debtors they can come to you for the whole amount. You could always negotiate assets against maintenance for yourself too, so for example, he gives you assets in lieu of maintenance for yourelf (might be worth thinking about with the house?)

Maybe I need to be not as nice and think the girls can do without their horse riding and extra stuff when really they should still get them.

You sound like a really nice person but you almost have to take your emotions out of the equation (not easy to do I know) and look at what the girls had until a month ago. On the sort of salary he is on they do not need to go without it, but you probably need to get it into a court order so that it is all defined.

I need to think about the schooling of the girls as well. He has always said that the state secondary schools around here are rubbish so the plan has always been state primary then private secondary. Maybe I'm doing the girls a disservice assuming things like that are out of the window now.

Again, there are two ways of doing it, either come to a private arrangement whereby he agrees to pay the girls schooling fees, or you can have it put into a court order where he agrees to pay until the girls leave full time education. Given that he is complaining currently about the nursery fees unfortunately you may have to be tough and go for the second option. If you get a court order and he still refuses to pay then you can get a deduction of earnings order so that it comes straight from his employer rather than him having to pay it out.

Do you know what it is, I've been thinking for the past month that maybe he'll get his head sorted and want us back. Pathetic I know, but we've been married for 8 years this year, together for 10 and I can't quite believe he's walked away from all of that for no real apparent reason.

Its always a shock, especially if you dont see it coming. Be kind to yourself as currently you are grieving for your relationship and the father of your children (he will be too even though it is his decision) but you need to get a framework in place that is solid and will allow you the time and flexibility to maintain the girls interests and still maintain some civility in the relationship.

As for the friends, by the time you have finished you will know who your true friends really are, I know when I got divorced I was absolutely amazed at the people who took "sides". My MIL bless her was one of those that didnt suprisingly and we talked until the day she died, and I valued her friendship immensely.

13Kent

I would echo the advice about getting legal advice sooner rather than later. My OH left things for a long time before applying for a divorce - for the same reason as you - he loved his ex wife and family despite the fact that she had had a series of affairs, and hoped that he could keep the family together, and she would go back to him. It didn't work, and in the meantime he was left with bills that she didn't pay that were in both joint names and his name only, he paid her maintenance in cash that she denied receiving, leading to a large arrears bill, he continued giving her money to pay the mortgage - she denied that, so he lost out on more of his share of the house ....it goes on!

He was only happy to instigate divorce proceedings when his life started getting better and he was ready to move on, and could see that there was no way back for his previous life. Had he done it earlier it would have saved him a lot of hassle - and money in the long run. His ex got the house, but that meant she would not have a claim on his pension in the future, so it's swings and roundabouts I suppose!

You have already moved out - you may have been entitled to stay in the house with your children I don't know - but don't make any other rash decisions before you have taken legal advice - I understand that you don't want to be seen as a money grabber, and that is commendable (I wish my hubby's ex was more like you!!) but you need to make sure you and you children get what is fair and what you are entitled to.

Best of luck!

LizzieS_2

The 6 bedroomed house seems excessive for either of you. Legally you do have a higher chance of getting to live there while the children are under 18, but there are pitfalls too:
- you would have to pay the mortgage
- there could be a forced sale when children 18 and he will then take some of equity
- it is likely the court would agree to a clause forcing you to buy his share out if you remarry (or co-habit for 6 months)
- although your income can be generous due to his earnings, the costs of running such a big property will eat into your budget (council tax, electricity, gas, water).

The 2 bedroomed flat is not really a fair idea of how the childrens livestyle should reduce.

Write down all the assets you own jointly and half them. Do the same with those you each own separately as these may or may not be taken into account.

If you are able to buy a property outright which is somewhere between the 2 properties, I personally would go for that. If you cannot do with just half the assets, the court could possibly award you a slightly higher share of assets and offset his "losses" by reducing spousal maintenance.

GobbledyGook

I just want to say thank you for all of your help. I am a lot clearer on what I want and need to do now.

The 6 bed house was excessive, but when we bought it it never occurred to us that our "plan" to have 4 children would be problematic. Being young we never, ever though we'd be one of the couples who needed help to have children, I suppose it doesn't when you are that age.

I've asked my friend for a recommendation for a good family lawyer. I've also sent my husband a long email this morning asking if we can get together, properly, to talk things through. We need to resolve his children losing their entire lifestyle and sort out proper arrangements for him coming to see them. I've clearly stated in it that I want to be fair and amicable, but that he needs to be fair and allow the children and I what we're entitled to.

I think we need to find a compromise over the housing situation. It's not right he has the house to himself and the children have no garden, don't have half of their toys because there is no space here and they can't go out to play anymore (we're 2 up whereas before they could play in the garden).

I've drawn up a list of the assets and things I can think of. I also want to make sure I can afford to still pay into my own pension, I had discounted that as an "extra", but I realise now that it's important I make sure I'm ok in the future too.

I need to know what we have in savings and things and have told him I need to know that over the weekend. I can't apply for anything like tax credits without knowing how much is in my name in the bank, he'll not realise these things affect stuff like that.

Thank you very much for all your help. Gemma x

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi Gemma

Just be aware that if you have any money in joint bank accounts, neither of you can close the account without the other's permission, BUT either one of you can take money out and put it in an account in your sole name (or spend it) without the other's permission.

If you do have joint accounts, you need to notify the bank of your new address and ask for a copy of the statements to be sent to you. If he should empty the accounts at least you will have a paper trail (not saying he will, but just to be on the safe side)

Sensemaya

Gemma

As well as your friend recommending a good family lawyer you may wish to look up James Pirrie - London and Stephen Lawson - more up north.

http://www.flip.co.uk/about/peopleview.asp?partnerid=6

http://www.fdrlaw.co.uk/StephenLawson.asp

Stephen Lawson helped me tremendously, although we never met in the flesh. All done via phone, letter and email.

You have been given great advice and support already, so all I can say is to wish you and your little ones strength over the next few months and we are all here for you.

(((hugs)))

GobbledyGook

Thanks everyone.

Ex is coming around tomorrow when my cousin (who is like a sister to me) takes the children into town to see Santa. We're going to go over everything and sort something out.

I learned today what is behind him leaving me so hopefully we can now get sorted properly without too much hassle, lies or secrets. I just want to get things sorted before it all hits me properly.