economy radiator company

Cardew

Perhaps you would care to produce independant evidence of your theory? Not the masses of advertising blurb on the web that tries to maket their products - independant evidence on Quality of heat?(whatever that is) reduced Lifecycle cost?

Perhaps you might care to publish your research?

We are all aware that infrared heating has its uses - for instance someone sitting in a large cold room by themselves can 'direct' heat from a infrared heater toward their sitting position; rather in the manner that a desklamp will provide sufficient illumination for the person at the desk but not light the room.

Why are 'cheap' convection and fan heaters or oil filled radiators not worth buying?

The vast majority of homes in UK are heated by radiators heated by gas/oil/lpg Central Heating others have electrically heated radiators/storage heaters.

The USA tend to have far more warm air heating - i.e. heat produced in a central source and the warm air fed by ducting to individual rooms.

If they have all got it wrong - why aren't the Governments of UK, USA and every other country in the world telling us to get infrared heating?

P.S.
Are you connected with sales of infrared heaters?

I ask as we do tend to get wary of first time posters, trotting out the content of dubious advertising websites.

moneysaverbloke

Perhaps Garry Hart is involved with a heating company - but he is certainly right in much of what he says. Although the notion of all electric heating being 100% efficient is fact - but it does not give the full picture in any way whatsoever.

I would would not EVER go and buy a £20 convector heater because I know for a fact that it will not give any decent quality warmth, in fact, it will literally burn the air around it, and not put any warmth further than a couple of meters. It will also cost a fortune to use while not performing. I can say this as somebody who has installed various types of electric heating systems over many years. I no longer work, but I think I have enough experience to speak with some actual working knowledge and I have seen very different levels of consumption and performance in different electrical heating methods.

I have posted the following before in response to others saying "it's all the same and all electric heating gives out the same amount of heat"

here we go;

"all electric heating is 100% efficient - therefore all the same"

not quite true though - all electrical heaters are 100% energy efficient - at the point of energy useage - so what this means is that no electricity goes to waste whereas a gas boiler system wastes a lot of the generated heat energy through the flu and also the associated pipework etc.

All electrical heating does not cost the same to run though. A bar heater, convector heater, or other cheap panel or bulb heater may often consume it's full output capacity all of the time that it's used, other more sophisticated electric radiators can maintain the same level of heat but only use about a third of the electricity.

This is largely down to the accuracy of the controls, the thermostat, the programmability, and the heat-up times as well as the partial storage capability of the material used inside the heater if any.

There is also then the physical design of the heat exchange surface - how the equipment actually transfers the heat energy - whether it's radiant, convected, combined, fan assist convected or even infrared - and furthermore the surface area of the equipment. Electrical heating is defintitely more complex than a simple case of 100% energy efficient. This is the reason that some 2kw heaters cost four or five times as much as others. As an ex heating engineer i fitted lots of systems which gave very diferent results. Hope this makes sense.

moneysaverbloke

To add to my post, I think that Davyjp's signature sums up this discussion very well
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong."

Cardew

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

I would would not EVER go and buy a £20 convector heater because I know for a fact that it will not give any decent quality warmth, in fact, it will literally burn the air around it, and not put any warmth further than a couple of meters.

'Decent quality warmth'?????

'Burn the air around it'?????

'not put any warmth further than a couple of meters(sic)'????

So having conceded that these hugely expensive heaters don't actually produce any more heat, you are reduced to the above highly scientific analysis.

That really sums up your contribution!

grahamc2003

Moneysaver, could you expand on how some heaters 'burn the air'? Perhaps with the formula of the chemical reaction going on.

Also, you say all electric heating is 100% efficient, yet later you say

It (a fan heater) will also cost a fortune to use while not performing and

All electrical heating does not cost the same to run though

which directly contradicts your 100% efficient statemnent. So which is correct? Are all electric heaters 100% efficient, or does a fan heater cost more to produce the same amount of heat as other heaters?

Perversly, having said all heaters are 100% efficient, you then also go on to say this

All electrical heating does not cost the same to run though. A bar heater, convector heater, or other cheap panel or bulb heater may often consume it's full output capacity all of the time that it's used, other more sophisticated electric radiators can maintain the same level of heat but only use about a third of the electricity.

which appears to say some electric heaters use 3 times the energy for the same heat, meaning you think all electric heaters are not 100% efficient - and indeed think the efficiency varies massively.

Did you realise your post is self-contradictory?

LittleVermin

moneysaverbloke wrote: »

I would would not EVER go and buy a £20 convector heater because I know for a fact that it will not give any decent quality warmth, in fact, it will literally burn the air around it, ..............
<snip>
I can say this as somebody who has installed various types of electric heating systems over many years. I no longer work, but I think I have enough experience to speak with some actual working knowledge ...
<snip>
... As an ex heating engineer i fitted lots of systems which gave very diferent results. Hope this makes sense.

Last time I checked, air - on planet Earth - was mostly nitrogen - non-flammable, with around 21% oxygen - which doesn't burn by itself, and a little carbon dioxide - non-flammable, plus tiny amounts of argon, neon, helium .. - all non-flammable.

So on planet Earth air does NOT burn - in a domestic situation. Neither "literally" or "metaphorically".

Yes, nitrogen and oxygen react in a internal combustion engine - and with lightning. But electric elements glow orange - cooler than lightning - so the yield of nitrogen oxides would be tiny. If it wasn't tiny bare element heaters would be banned on health grounds - or at least carry health warnings, wouldn't they?

Maybe you were a heating engineer on Zog? Dangerous place! Probably glad you came to Earth - with its benign atmosphere - to retire.

(PS Apologies grahamc2003 - I wrote this some time ago - and see you've also posted)

Cardew

I was thinking about this statement:

a £20 convector heater because I know for a fact that it will

---

not put any warmth further than a couple of meters

Assuming moneysaverbloke means metres! that feature would be hugely beneficial in many situations. Imagine a couple sitting on a settee they would be in their own cocoon of warm air without wastefully heating the rest of the room. We could take this further, someone working in a huge shed or even outside would be warm in their cocoon without wasting heat.

Convector? Convector heater? is that anything to do with convection of heat?

eddakerman

I have been looking into putting a new heating system into my new place, currently with two storage heaters upstairs and a woodburner in the sitting room. I have to admit I have been looking at these electric heaters for the following reason:

We both work in the day and we use different rooms at different times of the day. We also have a plentiful supply of free wood. I have looked into having central heating put in (no gas in the area) but what puts me off is the lack of control over oil ch. Our wood burner will heat the downstairs of the house, but it is cold in the morning and when we first get in - so we need extra heat in the morning and late afternoon but not in the evening. On the otherhand, we'd like more heat in the bedroom & bathroom in the evening when we dont need it downstairs.

I do have some simpathy with defensive comments above as it strikes me that ch is the best way of heating the whole house at the same time but by using the extra control of the radiators you can target the heat more efficiently, thereby using less energy to heating the right rooms at the right times.

Cardew

eddakerman wrote: »

I have been looking into putting a new heating system into my new place, currently with two storage heaters upstairs and a woodburner in the sitting room. I have to admit I have been looking at these electric heaters for the following reason:

We both work in the day and we use different rooms at different times of the day. We also have a plentiful supply of free wood. I have looked into having central heating put in (no gas in the area) but what puts me off is the lack of control over oil ch. Our wood burner will heat the downstairs of the house, but it is cold in the morning and when we first get in - so we need extra heat in the morning and late afternoon but not in the evening. On the otherhand, we'd like more heat in the bedroom & bathroom in the evening when we dont need it downstairs.

I do have some simpathy with defensive comments above as it strikes me that ch is the best way of heating the whole house at the same time but by using the extra control of the radiators you can target the heat more efficiently, thereby using less energy to heating the right rooms at the right times.

What extra control of the radiators?

It obviously makes sense, in your situation, to have electrical heating in some rooms 'on demand'.

However virtually every heater is fitted with thermostat, you can get some with timers or for a few pounds get timers and even remote control.

It is the claims that these radiators filled with 'magic' ingredients, and coated with special substances, - often costing £hundreds each - somehow are more efficient at heating is bulls**t .

Fill them with custard and coat them with platinum, or fill them with platinum and coat them with custard, and they will still give out exactly the same heat for the running cost as each other and any other radiator.

Owain_Moneysaver

eddakerman wrote: »

I have been looking into putting a new heating system into my new place, currently with two storage heaters upstairs and a woodburner in the sitting room.

It's not usual to put storage heaters in bedrooms - when you need heat in bedrooms (overnight) it's cheap rate anyway.

eddakerman wrote: »

I have to admit I have been looking at these electric heaters for the following reason:

We both work in the day and we use different rooms at different times of the day. We also have a plentiful supply of free wood. I have looked into having central heating put in (no gas in the area) but what puts me off is the lack of control over oil ch.

What lack of control?

Each (wet) radiator has an individual Thermostatic Radiator Valve. Radiators are piped into Zones and each Zone has a programmer or programmable thermostat.

eddakerman wrote: »

Our wood burner will heat the downstairs of the house, but it is cold in the morning and when we first get in - so we need extra heat in the morning and late afternoon but not in the evening. On the otherhand, we'd like more heat in the bedroom & bathroom in the evening when we dont need it downstairs.

Then you can put the upstairs and downstairs radiators on separate pipe zones. Each zone can have its own programmer, so you can do exactlt what you want.

If you really want to you can put each room on a separate zone, or give it a timer-controlled valve, although that's usually overkill for small houses.

eddakerman wrote: »

I do have some simpathy with defensive comments above as it strikes me that ch is the best way of heating the whole house at the same time but by using the extra control of the radiators you can target the heat more efficiently, thereby using less energy to heating the right rooms at the right times.

Up to a point yes, but that is true of any individual heaters, whether £20 Argos convectors or £100 Dimplex oil filled rads or £2000 "Magic Metaphysical Radiators".

Also if you only heat part of the house, you lose heat (and moist air) to the unheated rooms, and that can lead to condensation and mould. Therefore background heat in all rooms is usually beneficial.

The thousands of pounds these "Magic Metaphysical Radiators" cost would be much better spent (actually only a proportion of the cost would need to be spent) on better insulation.