The Sub Prime Credit Thread - Part IV

Zack1

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Yes - of course they report it!

If you apply to a lender and they decline you to fraud (cat 4 usually) they will not tell the CRA's but it will be on your cifas report that every lender will see on future applications, they cannot miss it because it is hard coded to flag for manual intervention, think of it the same as a NOC with a CRA - it means that the application must be referred and the same applies with CIFAS.

Sorry I'm tired , I mean report to me that it is a factore in my decline (because another lender has added it in the past).

As in when they send me the "sorry you've been declined, you don't meet our lending criteria blah blah blah" (that I have about 20 of!) would it ever say "due to adverse data from CIFAS (or N Hunter if
appropriate)" etc? If not then the person who's been given the marker won't ever find out without SARing them? Which could potentially take years to find out... And SARing them should be £2 like Equifax etc, not £10 under DPA rules :mad:

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Why is this cifas related exactly? it is an inconsitency therefore would be an N Hunter error code - nothing fraudulent is there, so no need for cifas.

Let me explain, cifas works on existing CRA data - so the only way to get a cifas loading is if you told a blatant lie, i.e. you apply for a crd to HSBC on 1st jan and then 3 months later, you apply again (forgetting the last application) and give a different employer or address, or the phone numbers don't tally - or you declared you're not a homeowner but land registry says you are....

Oh, I don't know, ask Elky .

So even if this is on there, it wouldn't lead to outright declines because it's not that bad - as even if it picks up I didn't pick student at X (say Barclaycard) but I applied to Y (Vanquis) who saw this report but I'd picked Student on their application form, then as long as they could do extra checks and verify that I really am a student it won't make a difference what I've put in the past (as they only care about me at that time, and if they can verify I'm a student at that time then fair enough?)

never-in-doubt wrote: »

It picks up fraudulent inconsistencies, not generalised errors such as employed/student status as these are not the underlying criteria for credit....

Couldn't switching between employment status be fraudulent though - as if I said Full Time I'd get credit I shouldn't have had if I'd told the truth and said part-time for example? That's why I agreed when Elky said they might stick it on CIFAS

never-in-doubt

wizzywig27 wrote: »

I also worry about that application I did to Argos last week, at the wrong address (which is now a linked adress on my credit file)

That would be reasonable grounds to create a cifas warning, a blatant lie about addresses so yea, i'd be checking with cifas in a few weeks if I were you. I understand it was a typo but the onus is on you to ensure that you complete the address properly before submitting mate. :rolleyes:

ElkyElky

I assumed chopping and changing between student and unemployed in between applications would trigger something.

I assumed it would be like selecting 'married' on an application on 5th, then 'single' on another app on 6th. Or working for x then moving to y company 5 hours later.

You're either a student or your not, can't be both. Well, technically you can be an unemployed student but they don't usually allow multiple choices on an application. :P

never-in-doubt

Zack1 wrote: »

Couldn't switching between employment status be fraudulent though - as if I said Full Time I'd get credit I shouldn't have had if I'd told the truth and said part-time for example?

No! It would be an N Hunter marker - NOT cifas as employment fabrication is not fraud, it is classed as minor and also hearsay!

You could have quit uni and walked into a full time job and pressed the wrong key when you were asked how long?

Plausible so fraud markers are ruled out because it is not obvious.

Two different previous addresses show someone is lying, who exactly, creates another problem so to safeguard the banks (all cifas subscribers) they add a cifas warning.

make sense NOW?

Get used to error and fraud then you'll see why Cifas deals with fraud and N Hunter deals with inconsitencies within application data submitted. :rolleyes:

wizzywig27

never-in-doubt wrote: »

That would be reasonable grounds to create a cifas warning, a blatant lie about addresses so yea, i'd be checking with cifas in a few weeks if I were you. I understand it was a typo but the onus is on you to ensure that you complete the address properly before submitting mate. :rolleyes:

Ok so let me ask this, and sorry if it is obvious, but I am getting there :rolleyes:

Lat time I got my report there were loads on there, why were they showing, and this time, there is none, but they could be on N hunter or CIFAS? thats whats confusing me lol

Also, I called Argos who basically said that I need to contact CRA. I know this is not true, but how can I explain this and get it removed ans a simple error?

never-in-doubt

ElkyElky wrote: »

I assumed chopping and changing between student and unemployed in between applications would trigger something.

I assumed it would be like selecting 'married' on an application on 5th, then 'single' on another app on 6th. Or working for x then moving to y company 5 hours later.

All the above is N Hunter, let me explain:

I am a student but also work, part time in the college term dates and full time in winter. Therefore which would be true? All 3 are viable options - fraud is not conclusive.

I was married, well still am but wating on my divorce. I spoke to a mate and he says to technically say I am married, but when I applied to barclays they only allowed me to pick married or single so I chose married but my HSBC let me chose separated/divorced so I selected that option. Therefore which would be true? All are viable options - fraud is not conclusive.

The above would all be N Hunter flags, not CIFAS!

I trust this is getting through mate lol

Zack1

ElkyElky wrote: »

I would. I'd also demand to Barclays that they give me an HSBC credit card!! :mad: But, if I get charges.. who would I be angry at? Barclays or HSBC.. :huh::huh:

:rotfl:

:rotfl:

seeya23 wrote: »

good afternoon to all not a lot a football on today

I know, annoyingly!!

never-in-doubt wrote: »

A good example of both for you to ponder.

CIFAS:

I used to have an incorrectly linked address on my credit file. For arguments sake this address is to be known as 123 High Street. So, I apply to Barclays for a bank account and fill in the form using my genuine details which is my current address (2 years) and my genuine previous address which is 999 Low Street.

When Barclays searched my credit file they picked up the incorrect linked address of 123 High Street - however I was not aware of this incorrect link.

To Barclays it looks as though i've deliberately lied about my previous address possibly to avoid repaying debt. In theory, it was an incorrect link which has now been resolved.

Take into account the above; then see how cifas gets involved:

As a result of the differing info barclays have at their disposal, they take the side of the CRA (as always) and conclude I lied about my previous address and so add a cifas category 4 (attempted fraud - facility refused). This will show my correct address and the the incorrect linked address (as this is the fraudulent entry - not what I declared).

As such I have a cifas marker. I am still none the wiser at this point.

I get declined and notice nothing on my credit file.

I then apply to Tesco, they do the same but see my barclays cifas and add another using my correct address and correct previous address and create a link to barclays cifas meaning I now become linked back to the incorrect address again.

Following me so far?

Ok, so to resolve this I start by going to the CRA and get the incorrect link removed, then I write to the lender who added the cifas loading and explain their error.

They will either remove the loading or leave it, for a period of 13 months or longer if they think fraud is continuing.

Just cos I tell them there has been a mistake doesn't mean they will believe me.

But how would you know from that that you had a CIFAS? You see an incorrect address, but how do you know Barclays decided to add a Cat 4 on you?

never-in-doubt wrote: »

N Hunter:

I apply for a barclaycard on 1st Jan saying I work for Joe Bloggs Contruction and earn £20k.

I then apply to HSBC on 10th Jan saying I work for the same company but earn £30k. As it was a short period of time this would flag up a warning.

Now, imagine the same but my HSBC application was made 3 months after my barclays application, the inflated salary would go through fine as not really unbelievable (i.e. fraudulent).

Also, N Hunter picks up phone numbers and other key info such as married/kids/length of time at address/employer etc - it picks up the finer details not associated with CIFAS which generally relates to first hand fraud whereas N Hunter is usually minor mistakes or inflation of income etc to beat the system.

I really hope that helps explain it once and for all lol - Bored going over the same ground time and time again!

That one makes sense though. Just realised Halifax have my old number on file, changed it now, but it's my pre-contract one (I had Halifax easycash for ages) but been putting my contract one on apps, That shouldn't make a difference though... I hope!

Interesting what you say in your other post about limits going down, so unless something stupid happens (like Natwest take their low limit down, or take my overdraft away, or Capital One don't put their very low limit up next month) I've got nothing to worry about? I'm obviously not trying to commit fraud etc, but it's the uni stuff and inconsistency with Student/Unemployed (cheers Barclaycard!) which concerns me

never-in-doubt

wizzywig27 wrote: »

Ok so let me ask this, and sorry if it is obvious, but I am getting there :rolleyes:

Lat time I got my report there were loads on there, why were they showing, and this time, there is none, but they could be on N hunter or CIFAS? thats whats confusing me lol

Also, I called Argos who basically said that I need to contact CRA. I know this is not true, but how can I explain this and get it removed ans a simple error?

Who put the wrong address on the application, you or Argos? You know i'm getting at here don't you - basically you need to contact the CRA and explain to them that the search should stay but be merged into the correct address format - explain that it is slighly different and as such created a link which is wrong.

they will fix it - simples. It will be evident when they see it, won't it?

It can be obvious when there are errors you know, a lender doesn't just add cifas for no reason - they need to be pretty much 99% sure before they add a marker cos it is libellous data and if they are incorrect and you pursue it you can sue for £5k (libel maximum in small claims).

ElkyElky

CIFAS, N Hunter.. meh, all the same in my eyes. Both organisations are there to prevent fraud. :j

never-in-doubt

Zack1 wrote: »

:rotfl:

I know, annoyingly!!

But how would you know from that that you had a CIFAS? You see an incorrect address, but how do you know Barclays decided to add a Cat 4 on you?

Interesting what you say in your other post about limits going down, so unless something stupid happens (like Natwest take their low limit down, or take my overdraft away, or Capital One don't put their very low limit up next month) I've got nothing to worry about? I'm obviously not trying to commit fraud etc, but it's the uni stuff and inconsistency with Student/Unemployed (cheers Barclaycard!) which concerns me

Because I am not daft and I SAR CIFAS/N Hunter each year - religiously and will continue to do so! For £20 a year it is cash well spent IMO.

Get into that habit as well.

Cap1 will go to £200, we both know that lol.

As for student unemployed this is N Hunter and nothing to do with CIFAS! But N Hunter would also pick up the fact that you have a student account (remember N Hunter is linked to Experian) and at that point they would not flag you cos they would know you are / were / is a student!

BUT what lenders usually tell students is to stay at your parents and use that as the main address to keep things tidy, most students move around that much it is not going to help their credit files long term is it?

So if you have a funny uni address or apply in uni and then apply when at home, stop it! Stick to either applying at home or at uni. Simples.

You guys make something out of nothing lol.... everything is beatable, if you want to know how to get out of paying then i'll tell you but it won't go down too well.... :rotfl: