The Sub Prime Credit Thread - Part IV

never-in-doubt

savagej wrote: »

Was there not an article I think in the Guardian by the woman who runs N Hunter, who said plans were afoot to direct customers towards them if an application if turned down as a result of a data mismatch.

I remember reading something.

Yes mate - that is right (sad that I even have all these links lol), http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2008/nov/15/national-hunter-credit-agency

Zack1

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Noooooooo


I have explained this 100's of times before! The CIFAS & N Hunter data is owned by them - not the CRA's and they chose not to share it, simple!

Kinda like asking barclays to start reporting data to CallCredit - why should they? If they don't want to?

Make sense - now?

p.s. CIFAS does report some things to the CRA's, such as Fraud Prevention marker, i.e. Protective Registration. But generally for fraud categories, they will not report them as the fraudster can then see what data is held about 'them' with the CRA's. This defeats the purpose of CIFAS.

So lenders won't report if it's a reason for decline either then? Because the fraudster could see.. I swear I read somewhere (Equifax?) that lenders should say if it's a reason for decline.

So if they aren't liking me switch to/from Student status, because some forms don't give that option and Elky said it may cause CIFAS then if they decide to place something against me I wouldn't have a clue? Because it's pretty normal I'm getting declined even without a marker (due to lack of income etc) and so I wouldn't know (without SARing them) until I get a decent income and can then finally think oh I should've got that

That's pretty poor IMO. If it's ID fraud etc then fair enough (although the innocent people wouldn't find out until they get a load of declines?), but if someone is suspected of committing the fraud themselves then surely they should be told and given the chance to explain themselves etc? If I'm suspected of nicking something from the local shops the police would come round and say what I'm suspected of and give me the chance to give my account of whether it's true or not

never-in-doubt

wizzywig27 wrote: »

So let me let me get this right, when you make an application for credit, they search experian/equifax or both, and they also search CIFAS, N hunter and Registry Trust?

So there are times when they share this data, for example when it shows on your credit file, and presumably there are times when they dont?

What are the reasons they might not?

OH MY LORD almighty!

Right, this calls for basic 10 year old explanation (sorry but ive spelled it out as clear as I can!)

A CRA is a credit agency, they hold data given by lenders, about your financial status and historic payment details. They do not deal with fraud.

National Hunter is a programme built into Experian meaning when a lenders uses Experian and performs a search, part of this search will include an N Hunter search - its not like a system they log into, it is build into the Experian software and is therefore not applicable to Equifax / CallCredit.

The CIFAS and Reg Trust searches are also built into the lenders applications - it has nothing to do with a separate search - they can look at everything as they pay for direct access.

A lender can perform as many or as few searches as they see fit before granting credit, but you miss the point - the overall process for a credit search, N Hunter search, Reg trust search and CIFAS search is less than 2 seconds - it all comes through as one report to the lender.

Think of it this way, would you go to barclays and ask them about your HSBC loan?

wizzywig27

never-in-doubt wrote: »

OH MY LORD almighty!

Right, this calls for basic 10 year old explanation (sorry but ive spelled it out as clear as I can!)

A CRA is a credit agency, they hold data given by lenders, about your financial status and historic payment details. They do not deal with fraud.

National Hunter is a programme built into Experian meaning when a lenders uses Experian and performs a search, part of this search will include an N Hunter search - its not like a system they log into, it is build into the Experian software and is therefore not applicable to Equifax / CallCredit.

The CIFAS and Reg Trust searches are also built into the lenders applications - it has nothing to do with a separate search - they can look at everything as they pay for direct access.

A lender can perform as many or as few searches as they see fit before granting credit, but you miss the point - the overall process for a credit search, N Hunter search, Reg trust search and CIFAS search is less than 2 seconds - it all comes through as one report to the lender.

Think of it this way, would you go to barclays and ask them about your HSBC loan?

Right get ya now lol

But to find this info you have to go directly to N hunter etc etc, as mentioned previously :T

never-in-doubt

Zack1 wrote: »

So lenders won't report if it's a reason for decline either then? Because the fraudster could see.. I swear I read somewhere (Equifax?) that lenders should say if it's a reason for decline.

Yes - of course they report it!

If you apply to a lender and they decline you to fraud (cat 4 usually) they will not tell the CRA's but it will be on your cifas report that every lender will see on future applications, they cannot miss it because it is hard coded to flag for manual intervention, think of it the same as a NOC with a CRA - it means that the application must be referred and the same applies with CIFAS.

Zack1 wrote: »

So if they aren't liking me switch to/from Student status, because some forms don't give that option and Elky said it may cause CIFAS then if they decide to place something against me I wouldn't have a clue? Because it's pretty normal I'm getting declined even without a marker (due to lack of income etc) and so I wouldn't know (without SARing them) until I get a decent income and can then finally think oh I should've got that

Why is this cifas related exactly? it is an inconsitency therefore would be an N Hunter error code - nothing fraudulent is there, so no need for cifas.

Let me explain, cifas works on existing CRA data - so the only way to get a cifas loading is if you told a blatant lie, i.e. you apply for a crd to HSBC on 1st jan and then 3 months later, you apply again (forgetting the last application) and give a different employer or address, or the phone numbers don't tally - or you declared you're not a homeowner but land registry says you are....

It picks up fraudulent inconsistencies, not generalised errors such as employed/student status as these are not the underlying criteria for credit....

never-in-doubt

wizzywig27 wrote: »

Right get ya now lol

But to find this info you have to go directly to N hunter etc etc, as mentioned previously :T

YES - I posted the links above and told you what you need to do! Is saturday brain turn off day? lol - sorry but you're asking me some bonkers questions, its almost as though you expect there to be entries on it!

You'll know if you have a cifas entry, you'll get declined for everything and anything and any limits you do have get reduced quick enough when the lender does CAIS updates monthly/

ElkyElky

never-in-doubt wrote: »

Think of it this way, would you go to barclays and ask them about your HSBC loan?

I would. I'd also demand to Barclays that they give me an HSBC credit card!! :mad: But, if I get charges.. who would I be angry at? Barclays or HSBC.. :huh::huh:

:rotfl:

wizzywig27

never-in-doubt wrote: »

YES - I posted the links above and told you what you need to do! Is saturday brain turn off day? lol - sorry but you're asking me some bonkers questions, its almost as though you expect there to be entries on it!

You'll know if you have a cifas entry, you'll get declined for everything and anything and any limits you do have get reduced quick enough when the lender does CAIS updates monthly/

No, I dont, just I had some a few years ago, about 30 of the bleeding things, and they have gone, just dont want them still to be there, hidden away lol :rotfl:

I also worry about that application I did to Argos last week, at the wrong address (which is now a linked adress on my credit file)

seeya23

good afternoon to all not a lot a football on today

never-in-doubt

A good example of both for you to ponder.

CIFAS:

I used to have an incorrectly linked address on my credit file. For arguments sake this address is to be known as 123 High Street. So, I apply to Barclays for a bank account and fill in the form using my genuine details which is my current address (2 years) and my genuine previous address which is 999 Low Street.

When Barclays searched my credit file they picked up the incorrect linked address of 123 High Street - however I was not aware of this incorrect link.

To Barclays it looks as though i've deliberately lied about my previous address possibly to avoid repaying debt. In theory, it was an incorrect link which has now been resolved.

Take into account the above; then see how cifas gets involved:

As a result of the differing info barclays have at their disposal, they take the side of the CRA (as always) and conclude I lied about my previous address and so add a cifas category 4 (attempted fraud - facility refused). This will show my correct address and the the incorrect linked address (as this is the fraudulent entry - not what I declared).

As such I have a cifas marker. I am still none the wiser at this point.

I get declined and notice nothing on my credit file.

I then apply to Tesco, they do the same but see my barclays cifas and add another using my correct address and correct previous address and create a link to barclays cifas meaning I now become linked back to the incorrect address again.

Following me so far?

Ok, so to resolve this I start by going to the CRA and get the incorrect link removed, then I write to the lender who added the cifas loading and explain their error.

They will either remove the loading or leave it, for a period of 13 months or longer if they think fraud is continuing.

Just cos I tell them there has been a mistake doesn't mean they will believe me.

N Hunter:

I apply for a barclaycard on 1st Jan saying I work for Joe Bloggs Contruction and earn £20k.

I then apply to HSBC on 10th Jan saying I work for the same company but earn £30k. As it was a short period of time this would flag up a warning.

Now, imagine the same but my HSBC application was made 3 months after my barclays application, the inflated salary would go through fine as not really unbelievable (i.e. fraudulent).

Also, N Hunter picks up phone numbers and other key info such as married/kids/length of time at address/employer etc - it picks up the finer details not associated with CIFAS which generally relates to first hand fraud whereas N Hunter is usually minor mistakes or inflation of income etc to beat the system.

I really hope that helps explain it once and for all lol - Bored going over the same ground time and time again!