The harsh truth about Tory policies

LizEstelle

Emy1501 wrote: »

Maybe I'm being thick here but wasn't the credit crunch caused by the many spending money they simply did not have? Now the economy will be fixed by encouraging us to spend more money that we do not have and pumping printed money into the system?

Sounds to me like the drug addict who thinks they can give up by constantly cutting their habit rather than simply going through cold turkey.

From what I can see the only benefit so far from printing money are house prices are on the way back up and so are shares. Aren't these the 2 issues which caused the problem in the first place?

Er... and the relevance of your comment to mine is..?



For those closet and not so closet tories who fondly believe that QE is a 'labour' matter, could you kindly advise me why the presumably idolised-by-you right wing governments of other leading economies are also pumping money into their economies hand over fist?

Your ultra-shallow, lets-bash-Brown tactics are pretty transparent and born of partisan, party political motives, pure and simple.

nearlynew

Maybe I'm being thick here but wasn't the credit crunch caused by the many spending money they simply did not have? Now the economy will be fixed by encouraging us to spend more money that we do not have and pumping printed money into the system?

The very phrase "credit crunch" hints at the problem. It is a problem inherent within our debt-based money system; in that money only comes into existence when it is borrowed. Although the "sub-prime" crisis in america started the dominos falling it is nothing more than a red herring when it comes to the systemic problems.

Sounds to me like the drug addict who thinks they can give up by constantly cutting their habit rather than simply going through cold turkey.

Yep. That's a debt-based money system summed up nicely. Printing money and devaluing the currency is the politicians only way of staying in office. They can't help themselves.

From what I can see the only benefit so far from printing money are house prices are on the way back up and so are shares. Aren't these the 2 issues which caused the problem in the first place?

Benefit?
Mmmmm.......... not sure about that one.

chucky

LizEstelle wrote: »

Er... and the relevance of your comment to mine is..?

it sounded good but wasn't too accurate.

i'm sure nearlynew and rewired would appreciate it though.

Emy1501

LizEstelle wrote: »

Er... and the relevance of your comment to mine is..?

You say Brown doing something is and was the right thing. I'm just wonder how putting the country into more debt and encourging us all to spend more money we do not have is the right thing. Maybe I miss understood your comment.

nearlynew

I love rewired

LizEstelle

Emy1501 wrote: »

You say Brown doing something is and was the right thing. I'm just wonder how putting the country into more debt and encourging us all to spend more money we do not have is the right thing. Maybe I miss understood your comment.

Look, there's precious little rocket science in this.

You can, if you insist, take out bankruptcy when you're in financial difficulties.

Like that, you go bust and your creditors get back maybe a fiftieth of what you owe them. End of story. Your business collapses and so does your contribution to local economic activity by way of suppliers and service industries. Everyone's the poorer. It's a lose-lose situation.

Or, if you're a teensy bit more intelligent and forward looking and you have confidence in your business, you could borrow more to tide you through the bad times and keep the business going. You thereby support associated businesses and the wider economy.

Please note my underline. If, like the tory supporters, you have no underlying faith in the general prospects for this country and your only thought is of a to-hell-with-everyone-else, personal enrichment kind, then of course it makes no sense to borrow for the general good. Such folk have always bemoaned collective provision. Remember 'no such thing as society'..?

StevieJ

nearlynew wrote: »

The very phrase "credit crunch" hints at the problem. It is a problem inherent within our debt-based money system; in that money only comes into existence when it is borrowed. Although the "sub-prime" crisis in america started the dominos falling it is nothing more than a red herring when it comes to the systemic problems.

Red herring it was the fact that banks capital was destroyed by investment in US sub-prime backed CDO's that directly caused the credit crunch. The housing market was a little ovevalued but would have flattened and eroded by inflation if not for that.

Emy1501

LizEstelle wrote: »

Look, there's precious little rocket science in this.

You can, if you insist, take out bankruptcy when you're in financial difficulties.

Like that, you go bust and your creditors get back maybe a fiftieth of what you owe them. End of story. Your business collapses and so does your contribution to local economic activity by way of suppliers and service industries. Everyone's the poorer. It's a lose-lose situation.

Or, if you're a teensy bit more intelligent and forward looking and you have confidence in your business, you could borrow more to tide you through the bad times and keep the business going. You thereby support associated businesses and the wider economy.

Please note my underline. If, like the tory supporters, you have no underlying faith in the general prospects for this country and your only thought is of a to-hell-with-everyone-else, personal enrichment kind, then of course it makes no sense to borrow for the general good. Such folk have always bemoaned collective provision. Remember 'no such thing as society'..?

There is nothing wrong with taking on extra debt if you have a plan to pay it back. The problem is we have really low interest rates and when the government should be encouraging people to pay off their debts they are encouraging us to spend more with VAT cuts Stamp duty cuts extra. They are also printing money and investing money into bust banks and then moaning that the banks will not lend.

The banks wont lend though because the majority of of the people who want to borrow are a massive risk. Many of the business model are based on pre-credit crunch forecasts and the mad beliefs that we are going to back to where we were pre 2007 in the near future.

The reality is that many of the people I know have spent the last 5-10 years building more and more debt with the belief that they can simply continue to roll over their debt or use the equity in their house to pay it off.

I would say where I work is a typical office in the south east. Pretty much everyone I work with lives in an overdraft. Most would be in overdraft fees even if they were paid 3 days late. The reality is many people especially those under the 30 are treading water when it comes to personal finances and many have been saved by low interest rates.

I don't think the government realise how indebted the man on the street really is and the problems they will have finding the money to pay back these debts in years to come.

nearlynew

StevieJ wrote: »

Red herring it was the fact that banks capital was destroyed by investment in US sub-prime backed CDO's that directly caused the credit crunch. The housing market was a little ovevalued but would have flattened and eroded by inflation if not for that.

Dear god


Why do I even bother ?

StevieJ

nearlynew wrote: »

Dear god


Why do I even bother ?

No idea