Howdens Traders passing on discount - Scam??

keystone

Leif wrote: »

But what happened? Are you saying you made a promise to supply items at cost price, but did not do so, and got away with it because there was no written agreement? Or did the client falsely claim that you said you would supply items at cost price as part of a larger deal?

I'd like to know eher the idea of supplying at cost came from in this thread. There is no mention of it on the lead post. Noone has yet defined what "at cost" actualy means.

If a civil case has been concluded then it is a matter of public record. Whether the OP has been advised not to reveal details is only relevant as long as the OP her/himself doesn't reveal it.

The case number will suffice for sufficient reasearch to be done to validate the claim and reveal the details

Its still an important issue but having opened the door the OP is very reluctant to let anyone in or out.

What makes you certain that Robert is the fitter concerned?

Cheers

Leif

keystone wrote: »

I'd like to know eher the idea of supplying at cost came from in this thread. There is no mention of it on the lead post. Noone has yet defined what "at cost" actualy means.

If a civil case has been concluded then it is a matter of public record. Whether the OP has been advised not to reveal details is only relevant as long as the OP her/himself doesn't reveal it.

The case number will suffice for sufficient reasearch to be done to validate the claim and reveal the details

Its still an important issue but having opened the door the OP is very reluctant to let anyone in or out.

What makes you certain that Robert is the fitter concerned?

Cheers

I did not for one minute say that Robert was the fitter concerned. But he said he had been involved in 3 similar cases, as the fitter/builder, and in all 3 he had been vindicated by the court. But he has given no details, so it is not at all clear what happened. Hence my request for details.

It was stated earlier on in the thread that the fitter promised the OP that the kitchen would be supplied at cost, and he would have made money on the fitting.

robert2011

My last post here folks ! I made no promise to any of my clients to offer materials at my cost price ! even if i did make a verbal contract the arbitrator always goes with the contract documents, which i always stick to. .In Scotland+England the arbitrator in a small claims court deals with this type of civil dispute all the time ,in my case i sat in the waiting room for 10 minutes until the arbitrator studied the contract documents,then the clerk of court came in and said just go home Robert case admonished no case to answer. KEYSTONE How can i be the fitter when this whole case of Jilys interesting thou it Is was stopped the same as my 3.

Leif

robert2011 wrote: »

My last post here folks ! I made no promise to any of my clients to offer materials at my cost price !

Thank you for clarifying that. And glad to hear it.

robert2011 wrote: »

even if i did make a verbal contract the arbitrator always goes with the contract documents, which i always stick to. .In Scotland+England the arbitrator in a small claims court deals with this type of civil dispute all the time ,in my case i sat in the waiting room for 10 minutes until the arbitrator studied the contract documents,then the clerk of court came in and said just go home Robert case admonished no case to answer. KEYSTONE How can i be the fitter when this whole case of Jilys interesting thou it Is was stopped the same as my 3.

Please, could you explain in more detail what happened? It sounds like some customers tried it on with you, but a few details would be nice e.g. customer falsely claimed you had promised something.

jillytb

robert2011 wrote: »

My last post here folks ! I made no promise to any of my clients to offer materials at my cost price ! even if i did make a verbal contract the arbitrator always goes with the contract documents, which i always stick to. .In Scotland+England the arbitrator in a small claims court deals with this type of civil dispute all the time ,in my case i sat in the waiting room for 10 minutes until the arbitrator studied the contract documents,then the clerk of court came in and said just go home Robert case admonished no case to answer. KEYSTONE How can i be the fitter when this whole case of Jilys interesting thou it Is was stopped the same as my 3.

I find it interesting that Robert has referred to my experience as "fiction" whilst he is the one who appears to be making things up hence he is unwilling to go into any detail. He even goes so far as to that my case "was stopped the same as my 3". I wonder who you really are Robert2011 and now that you are asked questions you say you are no longer posting here!

I wonder why three customers took you to court, one would not be significant, two would raise questions and three indicates there is something in your practice that is perhaps not acceptable to customers or is it that three customers have made it up, and who is the arbitrator you keep talking about, what court was it????? WHo is the "big boys" you say the courts always favour??

I won my case, it took half a day - NO ARBITRATOR to come and address me by my first name, the court clerk didnt even do that...... Ah the fiction is all with you Robert2011.

System

jillytb wrote: »

I find it interesting that Robert has referred to my experience as "fiction" whilst he is the one who appears to be making things up hence he is unwilling to go into any detail. He even goes so far as to that my case "was stopped the same as my 3". I wonder who you really are Robert2011 and now that you are asked questions you say you are no longer posting here!

I wonder why three customers took you to court, one would not be significant, two would raise questions and three indicates there is something in your practice that is perhaps not acceptable to customers or is it that three customers have made it up, and who is the arbitrator you keep talking about, what court was it????? WHo is the "big boys" you say the courts always favour??

I won my case, it took half a day - NO ARBITRATOR to come and address me by my first name, the court clerk didnt even do that...... Ah the fiction is all with you Robert2011.

unfortunately, as you are the op and have a groundbreaking court ruling - it is you who should be posting details, deflection isn't a good way to go here...

jillytb

the_r_sole wrote: »

unfortunately, as you are the op and have a groundbreaking court ruling - it is you who should be posting details, deflection isn't a good way to go here...

And you know that I have said I cannot right now, no deflection at all. I just find Robert's little story not only about himself but also me quite intriguing, sounds like Tom_Jones with a major chip on his shoulder because I was a customer who took a dodgy builder to court and WON! Tom_Jones appears to support the conmen and tells me I should be happy for them to take my hard earned money because of a fiddle, OH and Tom I dont think there is such a thing as a 16k kitchen from Howden, that was paperwork supplied after the event to back up the builders deception, it didnt work.

Anyway I am sorry that some of you have such a hard time believing that a customer didnt accept deception and took action for it, those who think it is acceptable are indicative of what is wrong with the building trade and Robert2011 and Tom_Jones both being from that industry and supporting what I and a judge found acceptable says it all.

At this stage nothing matters to be but that I won and that perhaps this builder will be stopped doing this to other people, shame so few people can see that it is wrong and needs to be stopped, but maybe if the building trade was cleaned up and regulated the likes of Tom_jones and Robert2011 would not be so smug and these posts and the oh so many TV shows and media stories would no longer have a place.

Anyway, the paperwork is with others now and the matter is not over so until it is I won't be back.

System

originally you have told us that you have been advised not to post the judgement (which would be public record anyway, and i am very surprised that it hasn't been picked up by any trade newspapers) - now we have asked for information to the date/location of the case, again information that would be public, but you have been advised to keep that quiet too?
Most test cases with the kind of impact yours would have would have been well documented in the press, especially the trade press - i cannot understand why your advisor would say to not give out any publically available information on a concluded civil case, we do not need any of the details of the ongoing criminal proceedings

Leif

jillytb wrote: »

I wonder why three customers took you to court, one would not be significant, two would raise questions and three indicates there is something in your practice that is perhaps not acceptable to customers or is it that three customers have made it up, and who is the arbitrator you keep talking about, what court was it????? WHo is the "big boys" you say the courts always favour??

I will keep an open mind and assume Robert is totally kosher unless shown otherwise, but I am very curious why 3 people took him to court. It would be nice to have details. If all 3 were making up stories, that would be interesting, throws some light on the other side of the fence so to speak.

robert2011

Ok folks, the reason my clients raised a civil delict(tort in England) against me was the same as Jilys case,ie when jily found out how much profit the fitter made she went mad ! she cried wolf ! Jily like my 3 clients had no legal base for compensation as they all never had a signed contract document to prove that they/she was not lying, End of Story.
I have traded for around 20 years only 3 cases raised against me ! not bad !
Lesson = if its not in writing it does not exist. I have never lied to win any job, yes some builders do thats life . Caveat Temptor = let the buyer beware !