can they force us to do overtime

donnajunkie

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Why would I (or anyone else for that matter) thank someone who holds the opposite views to those I do? I obviously believe my opinions to be right, or they wouldn't be my opinions, would they?

because even though we all generally stick to a certain view on occasion someone responds and gives a good reason why we are mistaken. so on occasion we will say fair enough as i have done. no-one can be right all the time.

Oldernotwiser

donnajunkie wrote: »

if they are at home how do you see if they are ill or not. ears? you mean you can tell from their voice when they phone in? assuming that is true they can ask someone to phone for them. what stats? they are off sick for the first time in a long time. so how will the stats go against them.

Your opinions might carry more weight if
a. You weren't unemployed after putting your beliefs into practice.
b. You'd make the effort to communicate properly.

Zazen999

donnajunkie wrote: »

if they are at home how do you see if they are ill or not. ears? you mean you can tell from their voice when they phone in? assuming that is true they can ask someone to phone for them. what stats? they are off sick for the first time in a long time. so how will the stats go against them.

Body language has alot to answer for.

Eyes, ears, intuition - when someone comes back from a 2 day skive it is easy to tell when questioned whether they are lying or not. Good managers are trained in these things. Observation of the way they behave; how they are with friends/food [depending on the nature of the 'complaint']. Usually we won't let on at that point and will let the complainant feel that they have got away with it, and further proof will be gathered in the meantime.

Stats; very useful to determine for example, that every sick day was also a monday/friday/training day etc etc.

It all comes back in the end; staff who think they can pull the wool over the bosses eyes are very quickly weeded out. We know, it's just a case of how much and when we need to divulge that we know. Meantime, we'll be watching very carefully.

Zazen999

donnajunkie wrote: »

because even though we all generally stick to a certain view on occasion someone responds and gives a good reason why we are mistaken. so on occasion we will say fair enough as i have done. no-one can be right all the time.

ONW and myself have had differing opinions in the past, and have never resorted to name calling or spitting out dummies; so I am afraid your assumptions are incorrect on this occasion.

liney

donnajunkie wrote: »

thanks. i was meaning if the training over ran. thats why fair or not it is silly idea to schedule training in a lunch break. i find it hard to believe training cant be worked into a normal day. it seems like greed. they have decided that paying someone £2.50 or whatever it is for 20 minutes extra is cheaper than training someone for 20 minutes in normal hours. pure greed.

If you have everyone for 20 mins run through the training then they are done and dusted and the trainer leaves.

If you have everyone trained during the working day A) you are short staffed and disrupted all day with people in about out constantly, and you pay the (probably very expensive) Trainer all day.

I can't believe that you really, truely do not comprehend the logic of their solution. It's not about "greed" it's about running a business that makes money, which in turn pays the employee's wages. It's not about "only 20 minuites" it's also the knock on effects of running the business on the bones of it's bum for the day.

donnajunkie

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

Your opinions might carry more weight if
a. You weren't unemployed after putting your beliefs into practice.
b. You'd make the effort to communicate properly.

a. i havent been in the same situation. the thing i mentioned here was how i would not work all day sunday, every sunday. this was on top of the normal 8 hours monday to friday and other overtime that i did during the week. i also mentioned that i would not have been able to do it due to transport issues anyway. i had mentioned this to them but it made no difference. i just dont see why people think being off sick automatically gets someone the sack. the fact that in this case it would not be genuine sickness is irrelevant because the company would not know its not genuine unless they did something daft like spend the day in the pub across the road. why do people think companies sack people for having 2 days sick? it is when you are off sick regularly that you lose your job. it was just an option for them to consider. i am not saying go on do it. i said they should just put up with the overtime.
b - ok, fair point i suppose. i guess i could say things better.

thornbridge

Oldernotwiser wrote: »

It's not a question of being "yes men" but of choosing which battles to fight and the right time to do so. A one off hour or so unpaid training doesn't seem to me to be an appropriate battle in the current climate.

What is your union's view on this offer,by the way?

Iv been on holiday since i heard about the proposal so i don't know what the union view is until i return in a weeks time

donnajunkie

Zazen999 wrote: »

Body language has alot to answer for.

Eyes, ears, intuition - when someone comes back from a 2 day skive it is easy to tell when questioned whether they are lying or not. Good managers are trained in these things. Observation of the way they behave; how they are with friends/food [depending on the nature of the 'complaint']. Usually we won't let on at that point and will let the complainant feel that they have got away with it, and further proof will be gathered in the meantime.

Stats; very useful to determine for example, that every sick day was also a monday/friday/training day etc etc.

It all comes back in the end; staff who think they can pull the wool over the bosses eyes are very quickly weeded out. We know, it's just a case of how much and when we need to divulge that we know. Meantime, we'll be watching very carefully.

very good points here. this could happen. it depends how good an actor you are compared to how inquisitive your boss is.
on the stats, like i have said if they havent been off for a long time and they dont regularly stay off for training days or otherwise then it wont show up in stats.
i can tell why any suggestion of a sickie annoys you as i get the impression you are a boss yourself. that isnt a dig i simply understand why you would take the stance you are taking.

apples1

The fact they are offering to pay you is pretty decent of them, after all it's only 20 mins as a one off not every day or every week. You are lucky to have a job as every employee is in this climate and employers are not charities. When times are tough it's a real balancing act keeping the company afloat and treating staff as one would wish to if money were no object.

I employ great staff and would love to be able to do more for them than I do. 18 months ago I could afford to treat them really well and now I still treat them well but can't do all I used to as if I did we would not keep our heads above water through the recession.

I hope you decide to do it with good grace. You never know one day you may get an unexpected call at work saying you have a sick parent or child or an emergency in your home life and really need them to help you out. I would do this for my people in a blink.

donnajunkie

Zazen999 wrote: »

ONW and myself have had differing opinions in the past, and have never resorted to name calling or spitting out dummies; so I am afraid your assumptions are incorrect on this occasion.

name calling or spitting out dummies isnt really the point me and onw are discussing.