"Bullying" on the forum

momoyama

helyg wrote: »

Oh I'm going to be so naughty now, and ridiculously pedantic, but I just couldn't resist (and please momoyama take it in the jokey manner in which it is intended)... but shouldn't that be "whose" ?

<runs and hides>

I actually can't see what's wrong with the word that you've highlighted. Please educate me. I'm being serious now - my ego is controlled sufficiently that I'm able to admit fault and put it right. I've just looked it up on Wiktionary. Should it be "whose"? That doesn't read right, though. Posessive therefore requiring an apostrophe. I'm confused.

Bronnie

momoyama wrote: »

Not talking about MSE specifically, but on forums generally (and real life too), there's two things that irritate the hell out of me:
1. People that abuse the English language
2. People that get annoyed with people who get annoyed with people that abuse the English language.

I'm not talking about typo's or spelling mistakes and I can certainly forgive dyslexia but people that abuse English or just don't care are (in my view) dragging this country down. Yes I know, language evolves and so it should. But language should also be about clarity and therein lies the problem.

You talk of people typing fast due to time constraints. I understand this, my time is as limited as anyone's. The flip side is that badly constructed posts take time to interpret. So I won't try any more. I know I'm not alone in this. I have only recently started pruning Facebook friends who's indecipherable ramblings take up my news page.

We're also talking on here as to how posts can be construed in terms of offense or bullying. In my mind, badly constructed posts are a large part of this. If tone or intent can't be properly conveyed in well constructed posts then what effect will bad posts have.

I suspect that this will be an unpopular view. I'm not setting out to offend anyone, but this is my honest view. Forums thrive on use of English... so use English. Please. I would also add that I have been guilty of correcting people when there's been significant transgressions e.g. "your" instead of "you're". I've never resorted to PMs to do this as it's not necessary. I'm trying to not do it, but just ignore the thread entirely. For my own (slipping) sanity.

Gosh! I'm stunned at that!

A general forum can't exclude people and deny them knowledge and support on the basis that their written English doesn't reach a certain standard!

Should dyslexics have a special sig so we know to 'forgive' them? What about people who were illiterate and are struggling to learn to read and write in later life? What about people who don't speak English as a first language or folk who find reading and writing just plain difficult?

We don't know what barriers other posters may be dealing with, therefore as long as their posts are respectful and well-intentioned we should be tolerant.

Bron
x

PS Old habits die hard and my red biro has been twitching IYKWIM!

HariboJunkie

momoyama wrote: »

I actually can't see what's wrong with the word that you've highlighted. Please educate me. I'm being serious now - my ego is controlled sufficiently that I'm able to admit fault and put it right. I've just looked it up on Wiktionary. Should it be "whose"? That doesn't read right, though. Posessive therefore requiring an apostrophe. I'm confused.

Hi momoyama. Most words with an apostrophe s can be read as a contraction or a possession but who and it are two words where apostrophe s indicates contraction not possession, for example, "who is pedantic?" can be shortened to "who's pedantic?" while the words who and is become whose and its when they are used to show possession, for example, "Haribo, whose posts are pedantic"

Not that I actually mind which one anyone uses.

geordie_joe

momoyama wrote: »

I actually can't see what's wrong with the word that you've highlighted. Please educate me. I'm being serious now - my ego is controlled sufficiently that I'm able to admit fault and put it right. I've just looked it up on Wiktionary. Should it be "whose"? That doesn't read right, though. Posessive therefore requiring an apostrophe. I'm confused.

Back when I was at school I was taught that "who's" means "who is", the apostrophe replaces th "i". As in "who is the bully"

Whose mean "belonging to that person", as in "Jane, whose sig is rubbish, replied to my post!.

There for helyg was right. Replace the apostrophe with an "i" and it reads;

"I have only recently started pruning Facebook friends who is indecipherable ramblings take up my news page."

soappie

geordie_joe wrote: »

"I have only recently started pruning Facebook friends who is indecipherable ramblings take up my news page."

Hmmm .... maybe the most grammatical way out of this is to change the sentence to read

"I have just recently started pruning those of my Facebook friends whose indecipherable ramblings overfill my news feed"

But sorry, that's probably going to be construed as bullying and I don't intend it to be...

momoyama

Thank you.

geordie_joe

Bronnie wrote: »

Gosh! I'm stunned at that!

A general forum can't exclude people and deny them knowledge and support on the basis that their written English doesn't reach a certain standard!

Should dyslexics have a special sig so we know to 'forgive' them? What about people who were illiterate and are struggling to learn to read and write in later life? What about people who don't speak English as a first language or folk who find reading and writing just plain difficult?

We don't know what barriers other posters may be dealing with, therefore as long as their posts are respectful and well-intentioned we should be tolerant.

Bron
x

PS Old habits die hard and my red biro has been twitching IYKWIM!

I think the point was made clear in the second last paragraph that you quoted. Nobody suggested that people be excluded. momoyama simply meant that if you can't tell what the tone is in a well constructed post, what chance have you got in a badly constructed one.

If tone or intent can't be properly conveyed in well constructed posts then what effect will bad posts have.

Belisarius

LittleMissAspie wrote: »

Bit surprised to see this message on the OS board but I think the forum as a whole is not as nice to read anymore. I read lots of threads that degenerate into a slanging match or just lots of posts criticising the OP and I am pretty much appalled that people are so rude. Not sure how that can be moderated and it's true that it's not just an MSE problem; I have seen this happen in other very popular forums. I gave up reading those ones because it got so tedious and I am getting to the point where I only look on MSE for something specific, instead of browsing and joining in.

This is how I feel. I think these forums in general are a pretty tough place to hang out in, sometimes. The way some people "talk" to other people beggars belief. And I certainly think some people really are just spoiling for a fight when they post, rather than trying to be helpful. I just tend to use the ignore feature for people like that, to be honest.

momoyama

Bronnie wrote: »

Gosh! I'm stunned at that!

Stunned at what? Sorry, got getting at you at all, Bronnie but this is just the example I was looking for. This shows what I meant earlier by the need for nested quotes.

Bronnie wrote: »

A general forum can't exclude people and deny them knowledge and support on the basis that their written English doesn't reach a certain standard!

As was said by someone else, I'm not asking for people to reach a certain standard just that people try, purely in the interests of clarity. Also, again, I'm not just talking about forums but life generally so dyslexia and literacy arn't excuses.

CCP

flubberyzing wrote: »

.... Secondly, if there is a post that really upsets you, that you want to comment back to, I always used to type it in a Word document, save it and then leave for the night, thinking "I'll post it in the morning". By the time the morning came, I'd either completely forgotten about it or didn't care any more. 9 times out of 10 I didn't end up posting it at all.
It's worth a go, it stops a lot of words being said in haste, without really thinking about the consequences.

I do that, too. It's a trick I picked up at work - I find that typing the message/email I want to send is very cathartic, even if I delete it before it goes anywhere!

I have to admit I've never noticed any bullying or nastiness on the OS board, although I know there are some other MSE threads where it does happen quite frequently - I stay away from those boards as I just don't want to read that sort of thing.

As an aside, this thread has got me slightly concerned in case any of my posts have inadvertently offended anyone - if so, I sincerely apologise - I really didn't mean it!

As a further aside, I can't help agreeing that badly written posts can be seriously irritating (I'm a hopeless grammar pedant ), but I don't feel it's my place to correct anyone - I wouldn't usually even query it unless the post was so badly written the meaning was unclear. Any mistakes I make are, of course, solely the fault of the cat's habit of walking across the keyboard while I'm typing. :D