I'm planning opening a pasty shop - what are the profit expectations?

dopester

Really2 wrote: »

So inevitably to get to these people you need a slick and big marketing campaign for your product or service. This would cost you a fortune just to snag a few clients (think of anything aimed at the rich and then look at there advertising to give you idea of how much they spend just to sell a few products) If the product or service is not right you could end up with n instant massive loss.

Well I can't argue that part. Presentation is very important, leading to confidence, and backed by whatever other ingredients goes to convince a purchaser they'll get what you're offering and it'll match up to your claims.

You're not going to convince someone to buy a product or service significant premium with some amateurish website with a bit of clip-art. It doesn't necessarily have to be a full flash website designed to the very £best standards.. which often takes an aching amount of time to get to the point of what you're selling either, nor does it always have to all require a huge investment to get going (leading to a probable massive loss in your opinion).

As for the rich being reclusive... of course some, but you can't really say that about everyone who has wealth and a lot of disposable money. Not everyone with money is a Scrooge refusing to spend. There are loads of people who like to spend big and indulge themselves even in this economy.

You're more likely to find a profitable niche at the upper end, rather than the "need to buy" market which is likely to have lots of competitors imo, so we'll just have to agree to disagree with our separate strategies.

Really2

dopester wrote: »

As for the rich being reclusive... of course some, but you can't really say that about everyone who has wealth and a lot of disposable money. Not everyone with money is a Scrooge refusing to spend. There are loads of people who like to spend big and indulge themselves even in this economy.

I mean more as reclusive in terms of contact. Unless you know them they are very hard to speak to or get to.
I agree they will spend big but it is the trying to get to them which is the hard part, without knowing some one more often than not they will have to contact you.

To get that exposure for them contacting you I think would be very expensive.
I can't think of another way unless you went door to door in affluent areas and went for a scatter gun approach.
Otherwise you would be looking at a reasonable marketing budget to get your product or service in the public domain and gaining hits on a website.

I agree you could gain a profitable niche from the rich but you will still get competition at some point just that when you have a smaller client base your tipping point of profitability can change on the loss of just one customer.

It's a hard one, the smaller the market the harder it gets in my opinion (we are a niche market and it will be tough next year).
Also you are still at the mercy of the economy, How many fat cat bankers splashed out last year?
Although niches can be profitable they can go drastically wrong very quickly.
I always think of business like financial portfolio if you have all your eggs in one basket if that goes wrong you could lose the lot.
It is better to have a bit of everything than a lot of nothing some times

lostinrates

Really2 wrote: »

I mean more as reclusive in terms of contact. Unless you know them they are very hard to speak to or get to.
I agree they will spend big but it is the trying to get to them which is the hard part, without knowing some one more often than not they will have to contact you.

To get that exposure for them contacting you I think would be very expensive.
I can't think of another way unless you went door to door in affluent areas and went for a scatter gun approach.
Otherwise you would be looking at a reasonable marketing budget to get your product or service in the public domain and gaining hits on a website.

I agree you could gain a profitable niche from the rich but you will still get competition at some point just that when you have a smaller client base your tipping point of profitability can change on the loss of just one customer.

It's a hard one, the smaller the market the harder it gets in my opinion (we are a niche market and it will be tough next year).
Also you are still at the mercy of the economy, How many fat cat bankers splashed out last year?
Although niches can be profitable they can go drastically wrong very quickly.
I always think of business like financial portfolio if you have all your eggs in one basket if that goes wrong you could lose the lot.
It is better to have a bit of everything than a lot of nothing some times

Really, you make ''rich people'' sound like an alien species.

Knowing people for this probably is key, I agree, or becoming an ''exclusive'' person yourself. I know some people who charge a lot for their services and target a high end/happy to pay a lot market, based on THEIR exclusivity, not the exclusivity of the market. Internet makes some of this bluster creation (by bluster I not not mean they are not necessarily good at what I do, but the starting/maintaining of whispers). e.g. I know of one prodcuct with a (emtionally/spin driven)captive market that I have on authority is pretty rubbish, but the person has created a bluster and an exclusivity around it. Can't say what it is or they'll sue me for saying the product is not all its claimed to be :rotfl:

dopester

Really2 wrote: »

I mean more as reclusive in terms of contact. Unless you know them they are very hard to speak to or get to.
I agree they will spend big but it is the trying to get to them which is the hard part, without knowing some one more often than not they will have to contact you.

To get that exposure for them contacting you I think would be very expensive.
I can't think of another way unless you went door to door in affluent areas and went for a scatter gun approach.
Otherwise you would be looking at a reasonable marketing budget to get your product or service in the public domain and gaining hits on a website.

OK I totally get your point now and can agree those barriers exist with many higher end services and products. Not all though, and not all require massive upfront investment. Depending upon what you're selling, barriers can be overcome with intelligence and creativity and style.

Anyway, I certainly despair at "low-risk" low-end ventures such as opening a pasty shop, in comparison. For higher end products and services, some barriers are too tough for an independent to overcome, or requires way too much investment. I don't believe that is true for everything though, including new products and services and "new ways of doing things" entrepreneurs can bring to market.

Have you ever seen that guy who "details" luxury cars? Paul someone (Dalton.. just looked it up, and his website.) He's appeared on lots of car shows and internet things. Total car nerd, known for giving cars a luxury cleaning treatment. Whilst bookings may have dropped off, he still established himself as like a real supercar cleaning nerd with all his knowledge and dedication... I bet he still has wealthy regulars and daily bookings pay him what he was last charging... something like £450 per car iirc. (In fact on YouTube it says he charges upto £5K to clean a car).

Even if he had to cut his rates for his remaining customers I bet he still earns a lot more money than dog-walkers and gardeners, with possibly a lot better job-security going forward too. Although I wasn't suggesting trying to compete with him or claiming he will totally survive an economic depression - he also has competitors. Just that he might have better chance of continuing to do alright for himself, with better profit than someone opening a chip shop, walking dogs, or gardening - because he has found something many wealthier people will pay a premium for. Even if fewer people book... less real wealth about, a lot of the wannabees can no longer afford it ect.. he may still do comparatively well in his niche area, when measured against a pasty shop. Anyway.. that isn't exactly what I had in mind anyway, but I'm dead against the pasty shop business in comparison.

Really2

dopester wrote: »

but I'm dead against the pasty shop business in comparison.

Franchises are risky at the best of times. But agree pasty's may give you a living but not as good a living as something else.

I think my thought is I always get a core business before targeting more specialist parts.
If you can get the rich as a core business that would be great.
I suppose a good examples of how I think is Toyota creating sub devision Lexus. Or what Rolex grew into from being a no name supplier to the biggest luxury brand in the world.

They sort of grew in to the niche than starting off in it.
(But I think the Lexus example is great as now they are a middle class car with the perception of being more expensive now)

I suppose it boiles down to timing and ability to change to suite customers requirements/budgets.

Really2

lostinrates wrote: »

Really, you make ''rich people'' sound like an alien species.

Well without working for someone worth over £1/2bn I would never know that person or be able to contact them.

I now act as one of their first line of defence, you would never get to approach that person from me.
Also if it was a product in my category you would have to supply me to supply them. You would never get to them direct (but more than likely they would request me to get them a said product) unless you knew them.

I class rich has top 1000, I presume these are the type of people Dopester is talking about. The rich which are still rich no matter what the world is doing.

Thrugelmir

dopester wrote: »

Anyway, I certainly despair at "low-risk" low-end ventures such as opening a pasty shop, in comparison. For higher end products and services, some barriers are too tough for an independent to overcome, or requires way too much investment. I don't believe that is true for everything though, including new products and services and "new ways of doing things" entrepreneurs can bring to market.

Have you ever seen that guy who "details" luxury cars? Paul someone (Dalton.. just looked it up, and his website.) He's appeared on lots of car shows and internet things. Total car nerd, known for giving cars a luxury cleaning treatment. Whilst bookings may have dropped off, he still established himself as like a real supercar cleaning nerd with all his knowledge and dedication... I bet he still has wealthy regulars and daily bookings pay him what he was last charging... something like £450 per car iirc. (In fact on YouTube it says he charges upto £5K to clean a car).

Even if he had to cut his rates for his remaining customers I bet he still earns a lot more money than dog-walkers and gardeners, with possibly a lot better job-security going forward too.

Fully understandable why he charges the rates he does.

Paul’s Miracle Detail studio is conveniently located in the heart of Surrey where he operates out of a 2000sqm air-conditioned and heated studio. When you leave your cherished car with Paul, you will benefit from the full range of vehicle detailing services as well as wheel refurbishment, dent removal and onsite bodyshop facilities. You will also have the added reassurance of 24 hour gated security, CCTV cameras, number plate recognition security technology and helicopter access.

Business suceeds with hard work and reinvestment of profit. Obviously he has identified a niche and focused his energies entirely on it. Based himself in one of the most affluent parts of the country where his market is close too.

Anybody can clean cars for a living.

A pasty shop could be equally as rewarding.

dopester

Really2 wrote: »

I class rich has top 1000, I presume these are the type of people Dopester is talking about. The rich which are still rich no matter what the world is doing.

Actually I'm thinking of the market of people, worldwide, down to say £150K to £1/4 million, or on very good incomes.. £80K+ for example. Not just the narrow super super rich.

No one doubts you are very good at what you do, Mr Chartered Accountant, and that you and people you mix with through work enjoy financial success for the way they do things, and for their knowledge, abilities, or perhaps taking intelligent risks which have paid off well.

PasturesNew

lemonjelly wrote: »

Whatta band! What music!

It's a band?

To me lemonjelly is something yellow and wobbly.

PasturesNew

tomterm8 wrote: »

Has one had a look at the syndk8 forum. because if one is gifted with the right detailed and obsessional personality, knowledge of SEO and a certain lack of moral scruples, one could make an absolute fortune.

I was right with you there until the moral scruples, unfortunately I have an over-abundance of morality and scruples. It's been my big downfall. If I hadn't been in possession of them I could have easily been on my way to making fortunes throughout my lifetime

Yes, I am a member there, just never read it nor post because ... well, it's full of well dodgy 15 year old blackhatters.