DFW running club part 4!! ALL ARE WELCOME!!

RichOneday_2

Its interesting that you mention the long runs (especially the 20+ runs), Mascott, because I was just looking at previous build ups to see how many 20+ I actually did.

I'm basically trying to find a reason why Sunday's 25 miler seemed so comfortable.

I think, although I cant be certain, that with it being the 4th 20+ mile run of this campaign, that equals the most of any build up with 10 weeks still to go....so should be another 3-4 to go, which takes things into interesting new territory from here.

But, from your point of view (possibly worrying about whther you'll get enough distance runs in) I am a bit surprised looking back to The Brussels Marathon in 1987 that I actually only did one solitary 20 mile run in the 12 weeks before the race and only a further two runs in excess of 10 miles, both at 13 miles.

And the outcome? A bit of a struggle in the later stages from what I can remember (but it was a long time ago:p) but a creditable finish of 2:52...not too shabby for a 21 year old but bleeding astounding off that distance work. Oh the naivity of youth!:o

mascott514

yeah,

starting to look forward to them a bit. With my plan I get three in prior to VLM. I think that will be ok.

RichOneday_2

mascott514 wrote: »

yeah,

starting to look forward to them a bit. With my plan I get three in prior to VLM. I think that will be ok.

Indeed!

Looking at more detail of that build up it looks like the reason I got away with it was that there were weekly 10 mile runs at about marathon pace and decent overall weekly mileage of 60+ miles per week.

So 3 should be fine if you get the other elements in there too, although i would never recommend trying a marathon off one 20 miler, thats just daft.:rotfl:

kmstuart

Where as i know people who do do marathons with no runs over 20 miles All to do with the way the long runs are done though. A mixture of fast tempo pace, steady pace and more usual slower pace all in one run. If i recall it resemebles what happens on the day without going the distance thus is meant to be less likely to injury people.

Me personally it can depend on when the last one was. Its been known for me to use other marathons as training runs before. Mainly cos i was getting faster with each one. Heck i did a marathon a week before a 40 mile race 2 years ago. Not to mention the same year i did 4 marathons in 3 weekends in may and the did full, full, half, full and full marathons on consecutive weeks in october of the same year. Both times it was easier on the later ones. Although for the october ones i did kind of pick up a hip problem so the last one was real slow (it was beachy head though )

RichOneday_2

Its the big picture/little picture thing again, KMS.

As runners, once we've found something that works okay we then start looking further to what is optimal for us.

We can take clues from what other people are doing but ultimately it is one big personal experiment.

But, yes, long runs do need to have a specific purpose, and that purpose depends a lot on how far out they are from the Big Picture race.

The first aim is to get used to handling 20 miles. At Marathon pace + 1 minute/mile it should be possible to just get out and do one pretty much anytime unless extremely tired. After all, if this isnt the case its going to be a tough call to ask the body to go 1 minute/mile quicker AND go a further 10K on race day.

The next stage is to start to introduce some faster pace into the later stages of these runs. This is to, as KMS says, to simulate the later stages of a marathon without putting the body under the full stress of doing so. Something like 10 miles at normal long run pace followed by 10 miles at marathon pace is a good building block, although far from easy.

Then, it is a good move to close the gap between 20 miles and 26.2 miles to some extent. This is both for psychological and physiological reasons. A lot of runners will advocate 22-23 miles as the optimal maximum training distance, just leaving the last 5K as the unknown for race day. Others will get much closer to full marathon distance and even go beyond but not more than once or twice in any marathon campaign.


As always there is no one right answer....just endless possibilities!:D



Dont forget Marathon Talk peeps. The interview with Indergaard is particularly interesting especially since the same topic re shoes that we were discussing on here last night came up (They're definitely spying on us:p).

Basically, he's saying that since the 70s/80s the feet/ankles have been trained to be lazy and therefore havent developed the robustness that they otherwise would. Its also interesting that he refers to/agrees with Tim Noakes in the Lore Of Running that despite 30 years of research none of the shoe manufacturers have managed to come up with anything to reduce the appalling catalogue of injuries.

Although, I suspect that is more to do with the 'Its always been my lifelong ambition to run a marathon' brigade, who realise in February that April may be getting close enough to get off the sofa and subsequently go and over do it in one mad big splurge of uncontrolled pavement pounding!

becky_rtw

I have six runs left over 20:
23, 25, 23, 25, 23 and possibly 26...

I have done four runs over 18 miles already as well so I am feeling good about that - the only thing I havent really been able to do yet is the progressive on the end but I am running much closer to target pace (not intentionally thats just what seems to happen) so I think the toll on the body is higher than it would be otherwise so if I dont get the progressives in this build up then thats fine with me

RichOneday_2

becky_rtw wrote: »

I have six runs left over 20:
23, 25, 23, 25, 23 and possibly 26...

I have done four runs over 18 miles already as well so I am feeling good about that - the only thing I havent really been able to do yet is the progressive on the end but I am running much closer to target pace (not intentionally thats just what seems to happen) so I think the toll on the body is higher than it would be otherwise so if I dont get the progressives in this build up then thats fine with me

You hardly need any progressive stuff (which build to marathon pace) if you're already running the whole thing at pretty much MP!:p

Last Sunday's 20.8 miler was run at something like 3:50 marathon pace, not really much need for progression from that...............

redsquirrel80

Hi you lot, lots of interesting reading in the last couple of days! My runny nose developed into a full blown cold, painful sinuses, temperature etc, spent most of yesterday in bed and doing the same today. It says something about my priorities that I'm more bothered about being better for another long run at the weekend than going back to work On the positive side my legs feel absolutely fine after Sunday's run, am taking that as a good sign!

Idio, look forward to hearing about the Turbo X, I quite fancy giving the one near here a go in September.

becky_rtw

RichOneday wrote: »

You hardly need any progressive stuff (which build to marathon pace) if you're already running the whole thing at pretty much MP!:p

Last Sunday's 20.8 miler was run at something like 3:50 marathon pace, not really much need for progression from that...............

:o:o I cant help it - that is a nice pace for me and I just get settled into it

(its obviously too fast though because it takes me two days to recover instead of one )

Red - hope you feel better soon!!

KeepYourChinUp_2

Update.

The garmin 405 canvas strap (ideal for smaller wrists) ordered from Garmin comes with two straps a small one and a regular sized one so my punt paid off. It doesnt look as good as the standard strap but at least I should have to buy another no for the duration of the watches life.

Went to running club last night did 4m (2 at 8:40ish pace) then my calves locked up, I guess this is because of Sundays race and probably should have done a recovery run on Monday but didnt because I thought the rest would be better. So I thought maybe I should have couple of days rest and LSR on Friday but my legs feel good now so maybe I'll do a gentle 4m later. Oh sage Rich do you have any words of wisdom in this situation?