Automatic renewal mugging

lisyloo

Which is why there are laws on the need for insurance.

Altarf - laws don't stop people forgetting.

If auto-renewal was so wonderful then everybody would opt in when offered it by their insurance company, wouldn't they.

No, people consistently make bad decisions.
Just look at the countries obeisity problem if you want an example.

Because that is the fake answer, and the real reason, as I have said before is profit.

Do you work for an insurer, so you can categorically state this as a fact?
I don't but I suspect the reasons are multi-faceted.
I'm certain it makes the admin easier too.

But you were trying to argue that as well as being legally right, they are morally right.

If they make it clear and send you a reminder saying WHAT TO DO NEXT (in bold on one A4 sheet - no hidden small print) then I think that's quite fair.
I wouldn't say they are wrong to do this when people have been told up front AND remided quite clearly.
If you want to disagree, that's perfectly ok.
Choice is out there and available to you.
But it's not morally wrong when it's made clear to people and they are reminded again and they still CHOOSE that deal over other deals.

but sends you a renewal form a few weeks before the policy ends, and asks (not tells) if you would like to renew.

You get this with auto renewal.
You get a letter delivered to you personally.
It's not long and it has LARGE PRINT on it.
It's very clear WHAT TO DO NEXT.
Why is this immoral if people agree to it?
Ok, it's not your preference, but should we not assume others should be able to make up their own minds?

I don't think either way is morally right. Both have pros and cons for insurers and comsumers and people have a free choice.

BTW - you might be interested to know that a close relative on mine spent time at Her Majesties pleasure due to not having insurance.

Altarf

lisyloo wrote: »

Do you work for...

A question that is always asked, when someone loses an argument. Thank you and goodnight.

lisyloo

Altarf wrote: »

A question that is always asked, when someone loses an argument. Thank you and goodnight.

Yep, you're right.
You've comprehensively swung it there :rotfl:
LOL

cajef

EdGasket wrote: »

- Just look on this forum at the number of threads where people HAVE notified the insurer that they DON'T want to renew and then are ignored. The insurer debits their card anyway and then charges all sorts of fees to 'Cancel' the cover.

Links???

I see plenty of threads where people moan, usually newbies, about auto-renewal when they have not read the T & C's or the renewal notice, but cannot recollect many where your instance applies.

lisyloo

There are plenty of anecdotal reports of correspondance or phone calls being lost when it's in the insurers interest for it to happen (not exclusive to insurers).

For things of this nature where their is a cost involved I either
1) send letter by recorded delivery
2) send email with receipts and check
3) get name, time and date of phone call, if paranoid call back and check it's recorded on account with another operator
4) get written acknowldegement.

I cancelled both contents and buildings insurance recently and I made sure I received the written confirmation.

I cannot provide any proof of this, but in the past I have had things go missing when it's not in the insurers interest to received them.
Normally I win complaints and get goodwill compensation as I usually have comprehensive details, but no sorry no proof available.

This behaviour is not unique to insurers.
Try getting phone cashback.
Moving an ISA.
Moving away a mortgage.
Cancelling your phone contract.
and you'll find the party that's not benefitting is at the very least unco-operative if not deliberately disruptive to your plans.

My most recent experience was moving a mortgage.
The outgoing lender were totally unco-operative.
But as I had a total record of phone calls etc. they ended up paying all my lost interest plus a goodwill gesture for d**king me around.

mattymoo

lisyloo wrote: »

But as I had a total record of phone calls etc. they ended up paying all my lost interest plus a goodwill gesture for d**king me around.

Decking?
Docking?
Ducking?

Ah - the autocensor doesn't like !!!!!!. Tough luck if thats your name. I seem to recall a recent u-turn from a school over their spotted Richard desert.
Edit - it does like !!!!!!.
Lets try dicking (or has Lisyloo invented a swear word )
EDIT - now i'm really intrigued. What word did you use Lisyloo? I think my expletive vocabulary must be limited.

lisyloo

I put in the *'s myself but I meant the Richard word.

I don't know whether it's lack of effort, incompetence or being deliberately disruptive.
Probably a mixture.
I tend not to believe the best or the worst in people/organisations.

thesim

JPreston wrote: »

I suggest you follow your own advice to stop whining and start reading - as posted above the 'renewal fee' is nowhere mentioned on the renewal notice, only in the general online T&Cs (complete with non-working 0800 number :rolleyes:) where it says a fee may be charged, without specifying the circumstances in which it will be.

I am still awaiting an explanation from any armchair insurance company shills out there as to:

- how it is acceptable to provide a breakdown of costs which does not add up, and which omits to mention a charge altogether while still including its value in the total,
- how this practice is qualitatively different to the example of a restaurant adding £20 onto the bottom line of a bill and leaving it down to the customer to spot their 'mistake', or
- what possible commercial justification is there for charging a 'renewal fee' beyond merely trying to see how often they get away with it.

In the meantime, a thousand apologies to everyone who considers threads about deliberately misleading practices of the insurance industry to be a tedious and off-topic abuse of a consumer forum about insurance, for taking up your obviously valuable time and limited internet space :rolleyes:.

When you took out the original policy, and recieved the documents, were the terms & conditions included? Or did you ring up recently and get the sent?

olly300

JPreston wrote: »

I

- how it is acceptable to provide a breakdown of costs which does not add up, and which omits to mention a charge altogether while still including its value in the total,
- how this practice is qualitatively different to the example of a restaurant adding £20 onto the bottom line of a bill and leaving it down to the customer to spot their 'mistake', or
- what possible commercial justification is there for charging a 'renewal fee' beyond merely trying to see how often they get away with it.

.

People on here who work in insurance are not miracle workers and haven't worked for every company who provides insurance.

If you want the insurance company to be held to account then use the Financial Ombudsman Service if you have lost money, and the Financial Services Authority if you haven't but can see the T&C are unfair.

Here's something I did when I didn't like what an Admiral Group insurance wrote in their insurance T&C.

1. I opened my policy booklet and saw their complaints address.

2. I went to the FSA website and took a look at how they regulated The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts 1999 with financial companies

3. Went and read the T&C stated in my policy again.

4. I wrote a complaint letter to the address I found in 1, pointed out that if I didn't get a satisfactory reply I would refer my concerns to the FSA and sent the letter to them by recorded delivery.

5. I got a reply from the insurance company within 8 weeks but it didn't answer my original questions even though they did what I wanted.

6. I wrote a letter to the FSA including copies of:
a. my original letter
b. the reply sent to me
c. a link to the policy booklet documentation

7. I got on with my life thinking it was a waste of time writing to the FSA.

8. Five months later I got a 2 page letter back from the FSA informing me that they had gone through the insurance policy noted my concerns and found something extra which was also unfair. They then had a "word" with the insurance company who for agreed to change all their policy documentation with the unfair terms.

JPreston

cajef wrote: »

You asked for peoples views so respect them, everybody is entitled to an opinion, just because they do not agree with yours does not mean you are right.:rolleyes:

Well, technically I asked for people's views on the industry practice of 'auto-renewal', not their views on the allegedly heinous act of starting a thread about it

Thoughout the thread I've welcomed and engaged with people whose opinions differ to my own (even conceding that it does prevent some of the cost of uninsured motoring being shifted onto the rest of us, though this is not relevant to my individual case). In fact that's why I started it - to get different perspectives on this - but I see no reason to treat replies along the lines of "I CBA readin this but your obviously an idiot LOL" as anything other than spam. What do these people expect to read about on an insurance forum anyway?

You point out that Bennett's weren't to know that I was overseas, and share a letterbox which of course is true, however if (for example) I had left a NIP unanswered while I was away then the fact that I did not receive the letter would be mitigating circumstances and I would expect to challenge the resulting S116 on my return. I don't have to remain contactable by Bennett's at all times just because I am a former customer, on pain of a limitless charge being made to my credit card at a later date.

People who 'love autorenewal', do you really love not only being charged a mysteriously increased and uncompetitive premium for an unnecessary insurance policy but also paying a hidden 'renewal fee' for the privilege? Really? Why aren't you posting on www(dot)throwingawayyourmoneyexpert(dot)com instead?

When you took out the original policy, and recieved the documents, were the terms & conditions included? Or did you ring up recently and get the sent?

I assume I was sent them on buying the original policy, but note that they only say that a 'When you renew your policy, a non-refundable fee of up to £30.00 may apply'. There is nothing to say in what circumstances it applies, and it was not mentioned anywhere on my renewal notice. Why do you think that Bennett's leave it off their renewal letters, if not to mislead their customers hoping that they do not notice?