Automatic renewal mugging

JPreston

olly300 wrote: »

People on here who work in insurance are not miracle workers and haven't worked for every company who provides insurance.

If you want the insurance company to be held to account then use the Financial Ombudsman Service if you have lost money, and the Financial Services Authority if you haven't but can see the T&C are unfair.

Here's something I did when I didn't like what an Admiral Group insurance wrote in their insurance T&C.

1. I opened my policy booklet and saw their complaints address.

2. I went to the FSA website and took a look at how they regulated The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts 1999 with financial companies

3. Went and read the T&C stated in my policy again.

4. I wrote a complaint letter to the address I found in 1, pointed out that if I didn't get a satisfactory reply I would refer my concerns to the FSA and sent the letter to them by recorded delivery.

5. I got a reply from the insurance company within 8 weeks but it didn't answer my original questions even though they did what I wanted.

6. I wrote a letter to the FSA including copies of:
a. my original letter
b. the reply sent to me
c. a link to the policy booklet documentation

7. I got on with my life thinking it was a waste of time writing to the FSA.

8. Five months later I got a 2 page letter back from the FSA informing me that they had gone through the insurance policy noted my concerns and found something extra which was also unfair. They then had a "word" with the insurance company who for agreed to change all their policy documentation with the unfair terms.

Hey, thanks a lot for that post :beer:
Like I say, as an obstinate sod with a new book of stamps I anticipate getting a full refund but I'm more hacked off that Bennett's think they can treat their customers this way, than being out of pocket by whatever amount of money they try to keep from me at the end. Not everyone similarly cheated will bother writing a letter of complaint to them (much less the FSA), and at the end of the day if this auto-renewal tactic did not work for the insurance companies they would not do it.

It's reassuring to know that the FSA will force a company to adopt fair terms even if the original complainant is no longer out of pocket by that stage. Otherwise I suppose a disreputable company could operate indefinitely by silencing the 5% who do complain with a 'goodwill refund', while continuing to scam the other 95%. I guess that's why we have consumer protection laws in the first place.

olly300

cajef wrote: »

Links???

I see plenty of threads where people moan, usually newbies, about auto-renewal when they have not read the T & C's or the renewal notice, but cannot recollect many where your instance applies.

Actually some insurance companies can have the word "may" in their terms and conditions in the small print which means they may or may not send you an auto-renewal notice.

In addition the key facts may not mention auto-renewal anywhere.

This is what I complained to the FSA about the use of the word "may" who in my case agreed that the word "may" caused the clause to be unfair.

So don't automatically presume that the person hasn't read their T&Cs. They can just be one of the many people who may not have been sent a renewal notice and not noticed the word "may" in the auto-renew clause.

Also whether you sent your letters by recorded delivery or include another method to prove that a company received a letter i.e. a cheque which companies always manage to cash even though it's stapled in the middle of a letter they didn't receive, be prepared for them to deny receiving the letter.

I have had this issue with Thames Water, Tiscali, Talk Talk, Three, RBS, eCar Insurance and a few retailers.

In most cases I have had to report them to their regulator or their local Trading Standards to get the issues resolved.

I have also threatened to report Thames Water and Three to the Information Commissioner's office when they have tried to use the Data Protection Act to hide behind. Strangely they managed to deal with my queries very quickly when I mentioned this, more so than when I mentioned their normal regulator.................

Mr_K

Autorenewals are there to maximise profits for insurance companies. As already explained many are autorenewed at inflated premiums. Arguably their own fault, but people feel its a con going by the number of threads/posts on the subject.

I've no problem with if its your choice to autorenew, but most companies are giving you no other way. Yes you could write to opt out but I'd suggest most won't bother to that. My own company Prudential are upfront about it, and do write a month in advance. This can give you a useful 'in' to lower the premium . i.e. ring u saying 'stop the auto renew', your then passed to a retentions dept. where your premium is quickly lowered. Most won't do this and will renew at inflated premiums. Insurance companies relying on apathy /laziness for their profits. It is a con but use it to your own advantage.

DCFC79

Its hardly a mugging if you dont remember to cancel said policy, if you have bad memory then do something about it

lisyloo

but most companies are giving you no other way

I'm afraid companies are in charge of what services they offer and not customers.
There are lots of areas where it's not ideal and car insurance is not an exception.
For example I don't like RyanAir charging me for wheelchairs.

For example if you take a credit card you have to agree to their charges and their order of allocation of payments. You have no choice. If you want the service you have to agree to it.

The answer is simply to make yourself aware, read your post and DEAL WITH IT.

It's not that hard to read the renewal letter, which is short and clear. Mine have always very clearly stated "What to do next" in bold.
It's not like they don't tell you near the time.

I minimise my junk mail, so I have very little rubbish to filter through. This helps to concentrate on the important stuff.
I also simply keep a spreadsheet of dates.
It really is very simple indeed.

There are loads of businesses I could complain about where I don't like the way they do things, but just have to deal with it.

The people who complain seem to not read their mail and complain they have too much junk mail.
Well, it's not that hard to stop it.
I've done it with relative ease and get virtually NO junk mail, but even if you do, it's no excuse not to read your mail.

Mr_K

DCFC79 wrote: »

Its hardly a mugging if you dont remember to cancel said policy, if you have bad memory then do something about it

This forums getting a bit harsh. We're turning increasingly into Americans.

The main problem is that your renewal notice could get lost or not be sent. Or the the insurance company could deny you ever ringing up to cancel - either through admin error or deliberately. You could then be left with 2 policies and a charge/hassle for cancelling one. You could have moved, not have a car, you could have cancelled the card (but it can still be debited) and you might not know about it untli you've a black marker on your credit record.... Yes you should have informed the insurance company about any of these but many forget. If you renew each year this would be a reminder to update/review you details plus try and get a better quote.

If you want reassurance by all means use autornewal, but you should be able to opt out on the understanding that you're taking responsibilty for your cover. I'd guess they still remind you a few times if you were paying anew each year.

lisyloo

The main problem is that your renewal notice could get lost or not be sent.

Spreadsheet? diary?
If you are arguing people might forget, then how would they remeber to renew their insurance.

Or the the insurance company could deny you ever ringing up to cancel

Written confimation?
Record phone call?
Send letter recorded delivery?
email receipts?
Are you jsut amking excuses here.
I recently lapsed my building and contents insurance. Took the name, date and time of call and checked that written confirmation arrived - bingo.

You could have moved

You should have told them about change of address as it affect the risk of theft etc.
But you can also do Royal Mail redirect
AND
be proactive with your spreadsheet/diary.

you could have cancelled the card (but it can still be debited) and you might not know about it untli you've a black marker on your credit record.

If you are really this totally hopeless then why should we rely on you to manage to remeber to take out your insurance?
If you can't cancel the auto-renewal then how can we rely on you to get the very important legally required insurance???

but you should be able to opt out

You can opt out.
Someone put a template up once, so I'm sure you can find it if you seach for it.
But of course you'd have to make sure you didn't forget, get lost in the post etc. etc. excuses, blah blah excuses.......:rotfl:

A good way to "opt out" is to pay by cheque or cash, this is not an automatically renewable form of payment.

Wutang_2

Mr_K wrote: »

This forums getting a bit harsh. We're turning increasingly into Americans.

Dude, that is so not true

Mr_K

Glad you love auto renewing Lisyloo but this website is about money saving. Autorenewing means you're giving money away. By challenging my autorenew I just saved £90. This could have passed me by and been debited from my account if I hadn't been a moneysaver and on the ball. Most punters are not like us and insurance companies know it.

All I'm asking for here is the option whether to use autorenew or not. You're effectively giving the insurer a Continuous Payment Authority on your card which you have no control over and you don't have the authority to directly cancel. As for other methods of payment AFAIK they only accept payment by credit/debit card or direct debit (which would cost you more). I don't fancy sending cash and they would probably charge for the privelege.

lisyloo

Glad you love auto renewing Lisyloo

Never said I loved it.
ALL of my auto insurance (car, bike and recovery) are NOT on auto renew, so people do have a choice.

but this website is about money saving

and where's the incompatibility?
You simply lapse the policy and shop around.

Autorenewing means you're giving money away

Only if you forget to lapse it surely??
and in this case you forgot to shop around anyway.
You seem to be saying that people can remember to shop around, but not to lapse the policy. I find that a rather strange thing to claim.

Most punters are not like us and insurance companies know it.

So if you got knocked down, couldn't work for the rest of your life, and found out the person was uninsured because they forgot, would you be happy?
Honest answer please (obvious init).

All I'm asking for here is the option whether to use autorenew or not

No, sorry, you cannot dictate to companies how they run. Sorry but it's a fact.
The only way you personally can dictate is to start your own company.
But here's the companies I'm with - Sheilas wheels, ebikeinsurance, AutoAid.

You're effectively giving the insurer a Continuous Payment Authority on your card which you have no control over and you don't have the authority to directly cancel.

You can cancel CPAs.
Write to the company giving your instructions. Send by recorded delivery (75p), keep orange receipt. There, that was hard wasn't it.
OR
Go with a company that doesn't do this. I've named three already.