Automatic renewal mugging

dacouch

Autorenew is a contensious system with many customers who like the system and as many or possibly more that do not like it. It strikes me that there are a huge amount of people who do not realise it exists and how it works.

There are some steps that can be taken before to remove it, at renewal to stop it and after it has happened to often recover / prevent any chances.

As we seem to frequently discuss this matter it would strike me that along with a sticky for admin / cancellation fees it would also be sensible for a sticky on autorenew where we can give advice and also people can discuss it.

Its a shame the Insurance forum does not seem to have a proper administrator as most of the other forums do. It would make sense for us to have a sticky as it seems to be a very hot topic

Altarf

lisyloo wrote: »

I would argue that protecting 3rd parties (pedestrians - some of whom are children, cyclists) etc. is not in the least bit spurious at all.

Which is why there are laws on the need for insurance.

lisyloo wrote: »

There are various ways of implementing it, yes.
One way would be to bombard you with reminders.
Another way would be to give you a certain "grace period" which of course would have to paid for.
No doubt people would complain about these methods.

If auto-renewal was so wonderful then everybody would opt in when offered it by their insurance company, wouldn't they. So if insurance companies have no doubt that auto-renewal is the best thing since sliced bread, why don't they offer people the option to opt-out?

Because that is the fake answer, and the real reason, as I have said before is profit.

lisyloo wrote: »

Whether we like it on not, these are legitimate legal operations.

But you were trying to argue that as well as being legally right, they are morally right. I disagree, designing a system to increase profits very definitely does not make you morally right.

lisyloo wrote: »

Personally I siply don't have enough life to change every minor detail of every tiny thing that I don't like, so I generally find ways to deal with it so that i can spend my time enjoying my life.
This means either buying a policy without auto renewal
OR
keeping a spreadsheet (where I also keep dates of tax, MOT, servicing, dental checkups etc.)

Or use an honest local broker who doesn't do auto-renewal, but sends you a renewal form a few weeks before the policy ends, and asks (not tells) if you would like to renew.

JPreston

It's interesting to read people's opinions in support of autorenew, and in particular 'renewal fees'. This presumably stems from the unthinking assumption that since admin/cancellation fees (where fairly and correctly applied) ensure the costs of altering policies are not passed on to customers who do not request alterations, renewal fees must be similarly fair. However they work in a rather different way.

Auto-renewal offers have a hidden 'renewal fee' included in the total, which in my case was presented as follows:

Premium - £110
Legal cover - £30
Total - £160 (check the addition!!)

Note there is no mention of the renewal fee in the above. Customers who autorenew are charged the total (£160). Customers who receive their letter on time and feel their quote is uncompetitive are invited to ring up, at which point I presume the agent will immediately remove the hidden charge reducing the total to £140 (all other things being equal - a different broker to Bennett's quoted me a little over half this using the same underwriter). So where a customer does nothing and renews completely automatically he is charged an extra fee of 'up to £30' (I presume mine was less because my premium is comparatively low, harder to hide the full £30 in there. Or maybe psychologically/optically it is easier to confuse £160 with the true total of £140, than £170? At least they weren't being greedy ). If this is so, where a customer phones up and uses the agent's valuable time, he pays no fee.

How is this fair? And how is Bennett's practice of hidden renewal fees in any way different to say, a restaurant dishonestly adding up a customer's bill incorrectly so as to overcharge him, charging him the increased amount if he fails to catch them doing so but agreeing to reduce the total if he does?

I've since learned that when you buy a policy from Bennett's over the phone they ask a question along the lines of 'When your policy is about to expire will you allow us to obtain a range of quotes from our underwriters and write to you offering cover at our lowest quote?' (I will obtain the verbatim text, but I believe that is fair representation in the meantime).

What do you understand that to mean? Basically 'may we send you a quote in the future?' Wrong - an affirmative answer is taken as explicit consent for automatic renewal. Note that Bennett's pointedly don't ask 'do you want us to auto-renew your policy', 'do you authorise your credit card details to be stored by us and charged without limit in the future', or anything along such lines. This to me is unacceptable.

I will make my complaint in writing, and will give Bennett's ample time to respond. Of the various points that have been thrown up in this thread my complaint will include the following (and further specific complaints relating to the quality of Bennett's customer service as I experienced it):

1. Unfair Charges - Bennett's charged me a hidden and non-refundable £20 renewal fee, the only mention of which is in the T&Cs which vaguely state that a charge of 'up to £30' 'may be charged'. Since I did not contact Bennett's prior to their renewing my policy or otherwise cause them to incur any costs, what does this charge represent and why was I charged it?

2. Charge made without consent - I do not believe the question in the agent's script that triggers autorenewal is sufficient to be taken as consent, because it does not mention automatic acceptance of Bennett's quote, and I intend to refer this matter to the regulator for examination.

I'm certain I will obtain a full refund however as a consumer I am genuinely concerned by Bennett's policies and behaviour, and will keenly await clarification from them on the above points.

Wutang_2

JPreston wrote: »

It's interesting to read people's opinions in support of autorenew, and in particular 'renewal fees'. This presumably stems from the unthinking assumption that since admin/cancellation fees (where fairly and correctly applied) ensure the costs of altering policies are not passed on to customers who do not request alterations, renewal fees must be similarly fair. However they work in a rather different way.

Auto-renewal offers have a hidden 'renewal fee' included in the total, which in my case was presented as follows:

Premium - £110
Legal cover - £30
Total - £160 (check the addition!!)

Note there is no mention of the renewal fee in the above. Customers who autorenew are charged the total (£160). Customers who receive their letter on time and feel their quote is uncompetitive are invited to ring up, at which point I presume the agent will immediately remove the hidden charge reducing the total to £140 (all other things being equal - a different broker to Bennett's quoted me a little over half this using the same underwriter). So where a customer does nothing and renews completely automatically he is charged an extra fee of 'up to £30' (I presume mine was less because my premium is comparatively low, harder to hide the full £30 in there. Or maybe psychologically/optically it is easier to confuse £160 with the true total of £140, than £170? At least they weren't being greedy ). If this is so, where a customer phones up and uses the agent's valuable time, he pays no fee.

How is this fair? And how is Bennett's practice of hidden renewal fees in any way different to say, a restaurant dishonestly adding up a customer's bill incorrectly so as to overcharge him, charging him the increased amount if he fails to catch them doing so but agreeing to reduce the total if he does?

I've since learned that when you buy a policy from Bennett's over the phone they ask a question along the lines of 'When your policy is about to expire will you allow us to obtain a range of quotes from our underwriters and write to you offering cover at our lowest quote?' (I will obtain the verbatim text, but I believe that is fair representation in the meantime).

What do you understand that to mean? Basically 'may we send you a quote in the future?' Wrong - an affirmative answer is taken as explicit consent for automatic renewal. Note that Bennett's pointedly don't ask 'do you want us to auto-renew your policy', 'do you authorise your credit card details to be stored by us and charged without limit in the future', or anything along such lines. This to me is unacceptable.

I will make my complaint in writing, and will give Bennett's ample time to respond. Of the various points that have been thrown up in this thread my complaint will include the following (and further specific complaints relating to the quality of Bennett's customer service as I experienced it):

1. Unfair Charges - Bennett's charged me a hidden and non-refundable £20 renewal fee, the only mention of which is in the T&Cs which vaguely state that a charge of 'up to £30' 'may be charged'. Since I did not contact Bennett's prior to their renewing my policy or otherwise cause them to incur any costs, what does this charge represent and why was I charged it?

2. Charge made without consent - I do not believe the question in the agent's script that triggers autorenewal is sufficient to be taken as consent, because it does not mention automatic acceptance of Bennett's quote, and I intend to refer this matter to the regulator for examination.

I'm certain I will obtain a full refund however as a consumer I am genuinely concerned by Bennett's policies and behaviour, and will keenly await clarification from them on the above points.

I can't be bothered to read all this but I love auto-renewing. Those who can't keep track deserve everything they get.

Although this forum would be a lot quieter (and the use of the angry icon would become redundant).

thesim

Companies keep your card details on the system for many reasons. Alot of companies will only refund via the method of payment you made, hence they keep it on the system.

If you didnt find the letter until your renewal has gone, that is your problem, not theirs, they sent it out in good time. If you were out of the country then it prolly would have been a wise idea to query before hand.

Proc

Is it just me, or could every single problem on this forum be answered and prevented by people simply reading their insurance documentation?

Stop whining, start reading.

cajef

Proc wrote: »

Is it just me, or could every single problem on this forum be answered and prevented by people simply reading their insurance documentation?

Agreed, I have no problem with auto-renew, it clearly states on your renewal notice that it will be automatic unless you notify them you wish to cancel.

You can hardly blame the insurance company if you do not read the notice or are out of the country, you must know when it is due for renewal sort it out before you go.

JPreston

Proc wrote: »

Is it just me, or could every single problem on this forum be answered and prevented by people simply reading their insurance documentation?

Stop whining, start reading.

I suggest you follow your own advice to stop whining and start reading - as posted above the 'renewal fee' is nowhere mentioned on the renewal notice, only in the general online T&Cs (complete with non-working 0800 number :rolleyes:) where it says a fee may be charged, without specifying the circumstances in which it will be.

I am still awaiting an explanation from any armchair insurance company shills out there as to:

- how it is acceptable to provide a breakdown of costs which does not add up, and which omits to mention a charge altogether while still including its value in the total,
- how this practice is qualitatively different to the example of a restaurant adding £20 onto the bottom line of a bill and leaving it down to the customer to spot their 'mistake', or
- what possible commercial justification is there for charging a 'renewal fee' beyond merely trying to see how often they get away with it.

In the meantime, a thousand apologies to everyone who considers threads about deliberately misleading practices of the insurance industry to be a tedious and off-topic abuse of a consumer forum about insurance, for taking up your obviously valuable time and limited internet space :rolleyes:.

EdGasket

Quote 'Agreed, I have no problem with auto-renew, it clearly states on your renewal notice that it will be automatic unless you notify them you wish to cancel.'
- Just look on this forum at the number of threads where people HAVE notified the insurer that they DON'T want to renew and then are ignored. The insurer debits their card anyway and then charges all sorts of fees to 'Cancel' the cover. Auto-renewal is a scam plain and simple !

cajef

JPreston wrote: »

I
In the meantime, a thousand apologies to everyone who considers threads about deliberately misleading practices of the insurance industry to be a tedious and off-topic abuse of a consumer forum about insurance, for taking up your obviously valuable time and limited internet space :rolleyes:.

You asked for peoples views so respect them, everybody is entitled to an opinion, just because they do not agree with yours does not mean you are right.:rolleyes: