Incapacity Benefit Wrongly Stopped - Failed Medical

Angel89_2

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Please can someone report post 97 to abuse for constant scaremongering (I do not have e-mail set up on this computer). Thanks.

Its called facing upto the REALITY, and what 1 of the 2 REALITIES will be.

Instead of just hiding your head in the sand and waiting till its too late and your on the streets with no money and nothing!



Yes maybe the doctor will find that the guy should remain on the benefit still due to his depression,
and so then he will keep getting the money in and thinsg will stay the same financailly for the household.

I know that thats what they will be hoping for and wanting to happen, and so they will hope that thats why the doctors also agree with.

(If that is what happens then theres no need to have discussion about it as nothing will change).



But what if that doesn't happen though, and instead the doctors decide that the person can work and so wont be entitled to the benefit anymore??!

Its no some wild obscure conspriacy that ive just invented out of thin air that has less odds of happening than they do of winning the lottery....,

its 1 of the 2 relaities that WILL happen.


And its going to happen to OVER 2 people for every 3 that are on benefits to meet the numbes and targets.

So that means Its more likely that it will happen,
then it wont happen,
and therefore it would be EXTREMELY FOOLISH for them to not atleast PLAN for that eventuality.



Seriously, whats the point and to be gained form not atleast just planning for the worst,
even if you hope for the best???!


I could get a scolarship to harvard doing a masters degree in advanced medicine and economics,
yet if i decide that im going to take out a huge mortage on a luxury apartment in canary wharf and buy a ferrari,
because i assume that as soon as i leave il be able to gte a 6figure salary job itd be extremely foolish.

And the much smarter thing would be to hope that i do manage that,
but instead plan for the worst outcome that im unable to find any employment and so endup unemployed and have to get benefits while i seek work,
and therefore i should be planning according to that scenario.

seven-day-weekend

Angel, I know that people can and do get turned down. But you are putting it forward as though there is some sort of conspiracy into deliberately lying and failing people whether they are fit for work or not.

I do not believe that this is the case and to frighten vulnerable people like you are doing is just not on.

If and when they need to appeal, then we can advise them how to. Until then, there is no need to be frightened about the medical or to go into it with the attitude that everyone is out to get you. That's the last thing a person with depression (or their carer) needs.

My husband has had three medicals and has never even needed to appeal (awaiting results of last medical now). He is on IB with depression. So people are NOT always automatically refused, and it is scaremongering to suggest this.

Angel89_2

timmmers wrote: »

Money is NOT all that matters at the end of the day...people matter, money is a means t an end.
The way that others treat you can make your day or destroy it when you aren't well...and one bad day blends into another easily in these cases.

Sorry but thats just not true, and in relaity everyone knows it.

Its like the foolish old saying ''you dont need money to be happy''.


Yet when people make these silly comments they are just GLOSSING OVER reality,
and living in fairyland where you dont have to pay a certain number of hundreed ppounds rent each month, where everytime you got to do you weekly shopping you dont have to give away a certain amount of cash notes, and where you can live and have things like heating, lighting, electricty, tv and internet,
but wont have to have pure money coming into your bank account from somewhere EVERY month to pay for then.


Yes people do matter, but ''people'' isnt an actual real relevant word when talking about stuff like this.

USE THE WORD ''PERSON''.



How exactly will a PERSON live if they dont have a roof over their head, and dont have any money coming into their bank account each month to pay for the rent of a place to live??

How will a person lie when theres no money into their bank for them to feed themself??



These things DONT JUST WORK THEMSELVES OUT!!

and

YOU DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF ''TIME'' TO DEAL WITH IT ONCE YOU GET INTO THESE SITUATIONS!!



Ive been homeless 3x before so i know exactly how fast you go from normal life to having to beg on the streets if you want to not die of starvation!!

And yes this reality WILL 'scare people', because guess what, ''being homeless with no money coming in is a fuking scary thing''!!



You can bury you head in the sand and just assume that it will all be ok and everything will be fine and work itself out some how,
you will run out of food in the fridge, not have recieved any money into you bank account that week as you no longer now get any,
but when you go to the supermarket to buy food something will just happen that will mean you will 'get food' and be able to feed yousefl ans stop your stochmach hurting and aching.


But the reality of what happens when people endup in this sitatuon is very very different, is extremely scary and frightening,
and not just some rare thing that doesn't happen to 'normal' people.

alwaysonthego_2

Have reported angel, cit-k and Gerry to abuse!

Angel89_2

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Angel, I know that people can and do get turned down. But you are putting it forward as though there is some sort of conspiracy into deliberately lying and failing people whether they are fit for work or not.

I do not believe that this is the case and to frighten vulnerable people like you are doing is just not on.

Ok let me rephrase this,
as despite how it may seem due to my post writing style,
i honestly am not a nasty cruel or bad guy at all.

The total opposite actually, but im not going to go into the details of that.



But let me rephrase and ask as a directed question to you and the people who think im just trying to scare people for the 'fun of it'.

We all know theres only 2 possible end results, the person ends up being able to keep getting the disability benefit,
or the person isnt able to and so has to start looking for work, or get no benefits.


But so would it be better for the person to-

1. Be 'scared now' by what i say describing what likley results of one of the outcomes would be,
and so they go and make plans so that if the worst does happen and the are told they cant get the benefit even after appeal,
they will THEN NOT HAVE TO HAVE THE FEAR, as they will have been warned and so will have had a chance to make emergency plans for how they could survive should that situation happen.

2. They dont think about the 2nd outcome of them losing the benefit, so dont make any plans about what they will do if it does happen,
then one day they get the letter in through the post box saying they have failed all appeals and so cant get any disability benefit and wont get payments any longer.

They have £100 in their bank account, with no more benefits payments going in unless they start sigining on and actively seeking work-
*Rent is due at the end of the month for the next month for £800.
*Food for the next week is needed at £30, utlity bills need paying at end of the month for £90.
*Council tax is due at end of the month for £120.


The fear and scaredness that they will then have will be far far greater than any fear that i or anyone else can give them from what we could post on an internet forum,
and yet that fear wont just pass after abit.

And it will get worse and worse every hour, every day, day after day as the end of the month approaches and bills need to be paid if they wish to be able to live for the next month.


They can THEN and will HAVE TO make the plans on what the are going to now do to support themself for the following month and future month,
and how they will get the money to house themself and pay the rent/food/bills,
but under the stress and fera of the situation, combined with their pyschologically state, that will have very veyr bad effects on them.



So which of these 2 is the best and least scary time for them to 'make the plans of what do to if the worst happend'?? :A

nogginthenog

Angel89 wrote: »

Sorry but thats just not true, and in relaity everyone knows it.

Its like the foolish old saying ''you dont need money to be happy''.


Yet when people make these silly comments they are just GLOSSING OVER reality,
and living in fairyland where you dont have to pay a certain number of hundreed ppounds rent each month, where everytime you got to do you weekly shopping you dont have to give away a certain amount of cash notes, and where you can live and have things like heating, lighting, electricty, tv and internet,
but wont have to have pure money coming into your bank account from somewhere EVERY month to pay for then.


Yes people do matter, but ''people'' isnt an actual real relevant word when talking about stuff like this.

USE THE WORD ''PERSON''.



How exactly will a PERSON live if they dont have a roof over their head, and dont have any money coming into their bank account each month to pay for the rent of a place to live??

How will a person lie when theres no money into their bank for them to feed themself??



These things DONT JUST WORK THEMSELVES OUT!!

and

YOU DON'T HAVE THE LUXURY OF ''TIME'' TO DEAL WITH IT ONCE YOU GET INTO THESE SITUATIONS!!



Ive been homeless 3x before so i know exactly how fast you go from normal life to having to beg on the streets if you want to not die of starvation!!

And yes this reality WILL 'scare people', because guess what, ''being homeless with no money coming in is a fuking scary thing''!!



You can bury you head in the sand and just assume that it will all be ok and everything will be fine and work itself out some how,
you will run out of food in the fridge, not have recieved any money into you bank account that week as you no longer now get any,
but when you go to the supermarket to buy food something will just happen that will mean you will 'get food' and be able to feed yousefl ans stop your stochmach hurting and aching.


But the reality of what happens when people endup in this sitatuon is very very different, is extremely scary and frightening,
and not just some rare thing that doesn't happen to 'normal' people.

We can do without this sort of post on this forum, ,This forum is supposed to be a HELP forum.
Your comments may be right or they may be wrong, and i know from my long working life,some people are blunt and call "a spade a spade". and yes people should have a "plan B"

BUT the facts are this ......worrying unnecessarily does no good at all and serves no purpose.
You need to deal with one problem at a time, and when you have the FACTS,
not "what ifs or maybe's"
Their are plenty of people who can help you, including many good well meaning people on this forum.

seven-day-weekend

Yes of course they must be aware of the fact that they may be turned down but your post (and other peoples') suggested that being refused was automatic and that the medical would always be a gruelling experience in which the ATOS Dr would lie and that the Benefit claimant's answers would just be ignored and/or twisted so that people would be taken off Benefit.

This is jut not the case and it is wrong to suggest that it is.

(And what the heck is this thread still doing on the Benefits Board??:eek: )

Angel89_2

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

Yes of course they must be aware of the fact that they may be turned down but your post (and other peoples') suggested that being refused was automatic and that the medical would always be a gruelling experience in which the ATOS Dr would lie and that the Benefit claimant's answers would just be ignored and/or twisted so that people would be taken off Benefit.

This is jut not the case and it is wrong to suggest that it is.

(And what the heck is this thread still doing on the Benefits Board??:eek: )

I haven't once even used the word ATOS or the phrase ''doctor lie''.


There are targets that they have to and so WILL meet though.

This isn't a conspiracy, its a well known fact.
Look on the governments own wesites and publications and you will see these numbers.


Ofcourse a doctor wont ''lie'' just to stop you getting a certain benefit, so you instead have to get a different benefit.
They get their 6figure salary no matter what the benefits service does.


But they will be ALOT more rigorous with the assessment,
and will ONLY keep the people who are at the furthest extent of disability and physcially cannot work no matter what,
on the benefit.

If you ''physically'' can work then you will likely be taken off the disablity benefit, and have to cliam JSA if you want to keep getting any benefit until you get fulltime employment.


Once again this isnt some wild conspricacy thought up in my mind,
check out the conservative publication documents about the massive shakeup that they are going to do to the benefits system when they come into power in a few months.



Their target numbers WILL be met, fact.

Whatever you, me, or anyone else may think about this is totally and completely irrelevant to the REALITY and what will ACTUALLY HAPPEN.



And so its not unlikley at all that people will just all sail through their medicals.

As the torries are having EVERYONE on disability re-assessed,
and 2/3s of the people who have their reassessment done will lose the benefit after it and so have to get jsa,
so that the target is met.


Fact.

Garry_Anderson

cit_k wrote: »

Its just as boring reading people who say their is nothing wrong...

What part of the opinions are unfounded btw?

Unlike the supporters of the dwp, I usually post links and qoutes, and stats, and evidence (I note that usually it goes ignored, and groups of people supporting the dwp etc go round thanking each others posts without any proof in, but dont come back and address the issues where proof etc is posted....) thats boring, as its predictable it will happen.

However, this is a discussion board - people could argue the pointless arguing about certain posters and people posting smilies etc is pointless - also people could argue if its only about help then the standard reply should be to close the board entirely and have one stickie telling people to contact a professional advisor....

As for it 'scaring people' - well if facts and personal experiences are scary, we may as well shut all news channels down.. If people didnt raise issues about how common things are, more people with mental health issues would take the problems they experience more personally.

There is a old quote

‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

Cit K - perhaps you can help me - I don't trust any answer from those that say it - how exactly is it scaremongering to warn people of things like targets i.e. why large numbers of sick claimants are being taken off benefits?

I would have thought it is an objective fact they should be told about.

System

anyone else read this

http://welfarewatch.myfineforum.org/ESA_ATOS_assessments_about11.html