Council Pay Freeze

Really2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

you are right.

It's fine, anytime

nicko33

Maybe you're both half-right

Roads are paid for out of general taxation and council tax. Motorists originally paid a 'road fund license' which was ring-fenced to pay for road building and repair. However this was abolished in 1926, by then-Chancellor of the Exchequer Winston Churchill, who feared that the fund would lead to drivers feeling that they owned the road. Modern 'road tax' - Vehicle Excise Duty - goes into general taxation. Roads are either paid for from council tax (in the case of smaller, local road schemes) or general taxation (for larger, regional and national schemes). Pedestrians and cyclists therefore contribute just as much towards the cost of road building and maintenance as drivers.


http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/campaigns/climate_change/roads/facts/roadbuilding

woody01

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Again, more generalisations.

You pay £200 a month for your bin to be collected and for a policeman to drive around once a month do you?

Right. So. Lets see. How does that policeman drive around? I.e., in what? On what? Does he drive across fields to get around? Does the dustcart just arrive outside your house without using roads and fuel? Do you never go out at night and use any lighting whatsoever. Do you never use a tip? Have you never used a communal building? Never step on a footpath?

As for your civil service stuff. Tell you what, why don't we get rid of it alltogether? I reckon you would be one of the first moaning when your life is effected by it in a way you can't even imagine now.

1. Policemen drive a car (obviously) - In a village = waste of public funds
2. Roads - Most are paid for by the Highways Agency and NOT Council Tax. Not to mention my Road Vehicle Tax
3. Dustcart - See above
4. Street Lighting - Are the councils not switching these off at certain times of the night to save MY money to spend on pointless rubbish
5. Communal Buildings - Library i will grant you.
6. Footpaths - Of course i use them. They are shabby and unkept though so where is the money going again?

Sorry but all of your arguments there were on the INCREDIBLY weak side.
I pay, and many people similar to me, far to much money to keep Local Council workers and civil servants in a job.
If you think that 6% contribution to a pension is high then you really have been pushing a pen in a council office for far too long.
Also, if the jobs you do are that bad, get a proper one that actually ADDS value to the country and in turn will probably pay you a real weeks wage for a real weeks work!

We subsidise your working week by council taxes that are POOR VALUE for money.
In the PRIVATE sector you would have to account for the money spent and equate it to value. Local councils cannot do this as the wastage is incredible.

I can say i am not tarring all with the same brush but most i have met are a waste of money and the jobs these people fill should be trimmed accordingly with INDEPENDANT auditors deciding who and what is needed.

pipkin71

Really2 wrote: »

No they have green concessions and vintage. If they are paying nothing how is it a tax to use you vehicle (your logic)?

You can also get a free tax disc if you are in receipt of higher rate mobility DLA and the car nominated is for your own personal use

Graham_Devon

nicko33 wrote: »

Maybe you're both half-right

Roads are paid for out of general taxation and council tax. Motorists originally paid a 'road fund license' which was ring-fenced to pay for road building and repair. However this was abolished in 1926, by then-Chancellor of the Exchequer Winston Churchill, who feared that the fund would lead to drivers feeling that they owned the road. Modern 'road tax' - Vehicle Excise Duty - goes into general taxation. Roads are either paid for from council tax (in the case of smaller, local road schemes) or general taxation (for larger, regional and national schemes). Pedestrians and cyclists therefore contribute just as much towards the cost of road building and maintenance as drivers.


http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/campaigns/climate_change/roads/facts/roadbuilding

Which is exactly what I was saying

Councils for their local roads. Highways agency for the motorways and bigger plans. Road tax was abolished which paid solely for roads, and now VED is a general taxation.

The little piece of paper is just a tax.

bendix

Graham

With the greatest of respect (he says, tongue firmly planted in cheek) you really do redefine the word 'pedant'.

Really2

Graham_Devon wrote: »

The little piece of paper is just a tax.

No, it carries an entitlement to it. thus why it is known as a certain type of tax. (glad to see you are still in denial of the fact even if I have linked to the government website:rolleyes:)

It would be easier if it was just a tax as you could charge everyone and no one could avoid paying it then.

kriss_boy

bendix wrote: »

I'm not biased against or jealous towards the people who work in the public sector. In fact, I'm delighted they earn piffling little salaries - it's an accurate gauge of the contribution they make to my life.



pip pip

Can I ask one question?

Presumably you consider yourself to be an intelligent man, if that's the case then how can you make such an ignorant, illinformed sweeping statement like that?

What are your experiences with your local councils? What do you really know about the staffing levels and ability of the employees?

What do you do for a living?

bendix

kriss_boy wrote: »

Can I ask one question?

Presumably you consider yourself to be an intelligent man, if that's the case then how can you make such an ignorant, illinformed sweeping statement like that?

What are your experiences with your local councils? What do you really know about the staffing levels and ability of the employees?

What do you do for a living?

Oh please, public sector boy, lighten up a little.

Anyone with an ounce of savvy would have seen I was exaggerating wildly to bring a bit of humour to a debate that was getting silly. If I was parodying anyone, it was myself and my entrenched cynical views.

I have absolutely no experience with local councils. Why would I? It's full of self-important jobsworths.

Except I know INNATELY that they all wear cardigans to the office, have committees to decide on pencil allocations, and spend all day splitting their time between doing the Daily Mail crossword and organising support group meetings for the Lesbian Amuputees Alliance.

Good grief.

olly300

bendix wrote: »

Those businesses are inherently weak and the short-term market disconnect was enough to push them over the edge, or should have been. Saving them in extreme circumstances does not help them; it encourages them to carry on in their bumbling ways. They learn nothing from getting help; it is no more than an endorsement for bad practices.

The car industries in both the UK and US are disasters of profligacy, union dominance and waste.

We save them to keep inefficient workers in jobs, and keep bad headlines out of the newspapers. It is all about good politics hiding bad economics.

If the Chinese companies can do it better or cheaper, state-dominated or not - so be it. Economic darwinism MUST prevail.

You talk some sh*t.

The UK car industry with foreign managers had a problem of over capacity. They were producing more cars then could be used by consumers. They had and were continually cutting costs to make themselves more efficient. This had been going on for years before the credit crunch happened.

Once credit dried up hardly anyone was buying new vehicles. And as they were still producing too much this pushed them over the edge.

It's actually the Japanese who are best at manufacturing and exporting products like these not the Chinese. The Chinese have a problem of variable quality control as well as a common disregard for the safety of their workforce and their environment.

So if you want cheap goods produced where safety isn't a concern go to China. However if you want goods where safety and quality are paramount go to Japan or Germany.