OK..whats your BMI-time to Fess n Focus

Bitsy_Beans

absolutebounder wrote: »

There is only one reason really and that is your unconcious mind. meaning if it is more pleasurable for you to eat and put on weight you will and your unconcious mind will help you. when circumstances change and the pain of being overweight outweighs the benefits then unconcious mind will help reduce weight. there is a wghole thread on this about Paul mckennas I can make you thin. unfortunately only a very small percentage of posters if any actually understand Mr mckenna:rotfl:

Bounder would you care to expand on this? As you know I post on that thread. I am interested in what you have to say.

Jojo_the_Tightfisted

Just gone and had a quick peek at the Paul McKenna board. It's interesting. A lot of the posters are saying that they just can't cope with the idea that they are the ones in control of what they put in their mouths. Well, who the devil do they think is responsible if it's not them? They want to go to Weight Watchers, which reminds me of a cult - falling for the lies that they are helpless, they are weak and infantile, they must share their humiliations, they must reply on the accompanying merchandise, they must continue with group once they have lost the weight, they are only a few steps away from relapse and that they have a duty to evangelise once they have reached a certain level in the organisation.

They go on to say that they didn't want to do a part of the course, as they didn't want to be put off (ie, stop eating) chocolate. Why - if it really were the only reason they were overweight, why hold on to it unless they don't actually want to be successful?

I would not dream of saying these people are weak - I think they have a malfunctioning response to food and emotional discomfort. At least, I think that is what Paul McKenna is saying. And I believe that again, AB is right in that a lot of the posters don't understand this - they seem to expect that he is going to be able to make them miraculously thin whilst they still eat rubbish, drink alcohol, etc, etc. I think the point they are not getting is that the techniques they are rejecting are the ones they need most, as they are the ones which can allow them to acknowledge the emotions and sensations eating has anaesthetised for so long - for example, the tapping technique would deal with feelings of anxiety in the absence of the usual crutch of food.

It's not there to deal with physical hunger. It's designed to teach people to recognise and deal with emotional hunger in a way without falling back on inappropriate props, such as food.

But hey, what do I know?

Bitsy_Beans

Jojo_the_Tightfisted wrote: »

Just gone and had a quick peek at the Paul McKenna board. It's interesting. A lot of the posters are saying that they just can't cope with the idea that they are the ones in control of what they put in their mouths. Well, who the devil do they think is responsible if it's not them? They want to go to Weight Watchers, which reminds me of a cult - falling for the lies that they are helpless, they are weak and infantile, they must share their humiliations, they must reply on the accompanying merchandise, they must continue with group once they have lost the weight, they are only a few steps away from relapse and that they have a duty to evangelise once they have reached a certain level in the organisation.

They go on to say that they didn't want to do a part of the course, as they didn't want to be put off (ie, stop eating) chocolate. Why - if it really were the only reason they were overweight, why hold on to it unless they don't actually want to be successful?

I would not dream of saying these people are weak - I think they have a malfunctioning response to food and emotional discomfort. At least, I think that is what Paul McKenna is saying. And I believe that again, AB is right in that a lot of the posters don't understand this - they seem to expect that he is going to be able to make them miraculously thin whilst they still eat rubbish, drink alcohol, etc, etc. I think the point they are not getting is that the techniques they are rejecting are the ones they need most, as they are the ones which can allow them to acknowledge the emotions and sensations eating has anaesthetised for so long - for example, the tapping technique would deal with feelings of anxiety in the absence of the usual crutch of food.

It's not there to deal with physical hunger. It's designed to teach people to recognise and deal with emotional hunger in a way without falling back on inappropriate props, such as food.

But hey, what do I know?

I think you are missing the point of what many posters are saying. Many are serial diets and associate a certain way of losing weight. They find it hard to accept that nothing is forbidden and that they can eat what they want because of being conditioned to lose weight a certain way. Most diets like SW and WW have basic lists with points etc on which controls what many people chose to eat. Therefore they are not controlling to a certain extent what they put in their mouths, they are relying on a list to tell them.

As for not wanting to do part of the course. Well I love chocolate. I don't want to give it up. I don't smoke, I rarely drink and chocolate is one of my pleasures in life. It's not the reason I am overweight though (well it's having 2 kids thats been partly responsible). You actually hit the nail on the head later in your post. I think most people are overweight due to emotional eating and poor relationship with food. What they are eating is only part of the problem - it's why and when they eat that's the other half of it. In all likelihood if they tackled the latter problem the former would probably be less of an issue.

But hey what do I know. I am no expert. I can only go with my personal experience

absolutebounder

Bitsy_Beans wrote: »

I think you are missing the point of what many posters are saying. Many are serial diets and associate a certain way of losing weight. They find it hard to accept that nothing is forbidden and that they can eat what they want because of being conditioned to lose weight a certain way. Most diets like SW and WW have basic lists with points etc on which controls what many people chose to eat. Therefore they are not controlling to a certain extent what they put in their mouths, they are relying on a list to tell them.

As for not wanting to do part of the course. Well I love chocolate. I don't want to give it up. I don't smoke, I rarely drink and chocolate is one of my pleasures in life. It's not the reason I am overweight though (well it's having 2 kids thats been partly responsible). You actually hit the nail on the head later in your post. I think most people are overweight due to emotional eating and poor relationship with food. What they are eating is only part of the problem - it's why and when they eat that's the other half of it. In all likelihood if they tackled the latter problem the former would probably be less of an issue.

But hey what do I know. I am no expert. I can only go with my personal experience

Firstly the diet industry is a multibillion pound outfit and doesnt want you to get thin. Dieticians make use of a few misconceptions. 1) fat makes you fat. hence low fat diets which dont work. 2) carbs are healthy and necessary. Fact there are essential fats which your body cant do without and your brain is the most fatty organ in the body (about 80%. Fact. there are no essential carbs. Now the interesting part. Excess carbs and the body cant store many carbs. what it can are stored as glycogen but only a few minutes worth. The rest are converted to guess what? FAT.
More interesting bits we meausure weight but fat is lighter than muscle which makes up shape and tone.
Now Paul Mckenna is heavily involved with the founderrs of NLP which copies success in both mentaly and physicaly. We hypnotherapists understand that where attention goes energy flows as far as unconcious mind is concerned. In addition there is the law of reversed effect which means the harder you try the more you fail. So if you obsess with a diet your brain will obsess with food and guess what. no real long lasting weight loss or better shape. I think PMs book is modelled on Napoleon hills book think and grow rich. If you read that book and substituted slim for the word rich you would probably do a lot better. Since the focus of thought should be on the small chunks that are needed to meet the goal and that is not weight loss but looking good in a dress or on the beach.

System

Hypnotherapy is interesting but i would never trust anyone enough to go under. It feels too much like brainwashing to me.

Bitsy_Beans

absolutebounder wrote: »

Firstly the diet industry is a multibillion pound outfit and doesnt want you to get thin. Dieticians make use of a few misconceptions. 1) fat makes you fat. hence low fat diets which dont work. 2) carbs are healthy and necessary. Fact there are essential fats which your body cant do without and your brain is the most fatty organ in the body (about 80%. Fact. there are no essential carbs. Now the interesting part. Excess carbs and the body cant store many carbs. what it can are stored as glycogen but only a few minutes worth. The rest are converted to guess what? FAT.
More interesting bits we meausure weight but fat is lighter than muscle which makes up shape and tone.
Now Paul Mckenna is heavily involved with the founderrs of NLP which copies success in both mentaly and physicaly. We hypnotherapists understand that where attention goes energy flows as far as unconcious mind is concerned. In addition there is the law of reversed effect which means the harder you try the more you fail. So if you obsess with a diet your brain will obsess with food and guess what. no real long lasting weight loss or better shape. I think PMs book is modelled on Napoleon hills book think and grow rich. If you read that book and substituted slim for the word rich you would probably do a lot better. Since the focus of thought should be on the small chunks that are needed to meet the goal and that is not weight loss but looking good in a dress or on the beach.

Now the first highlighted bit is why I can't face any diet again.

The second - well I could do with being a bit richer so perhaps I should give that a go too!

How long did it take to train as a hyponotherapist Bounder? Is this something you've done for a long time. I do find it really interesting. Any other books on the subject you'd care to recommend (sorry going off on a tangent).

Messed up - Lets face it by following WW or some other "diet" you are brainwashing yourself to stick to some ridiculous scheme or believe that some tastless expensive carp from WW is the only way to lose weight. I don't view hypnotherapy as brainwashing in a negative sense but enouraging the brain to explore other avenues.

suki1964

Bitsy_Beans wrote: »

Now the first highlighted bit is why I can't face any diet again.

The second - well I could do with being a bit richer so perhaps I should give that a go too!

How long did it take to train as a hyponotherapist Bounder? Is this something you've done for a long time. I do find it really interesting. Any other books on the subject you'd care to recommend (sorry going off on a tangent).

Messed up - Lets face it by following WW or some other "diet" you are brainwashing yourself to stick to some ridiculous scheme or believe that some tastless expensive carp from WW is the only way to lose weight. I don't view hypnotherapy as brainwashing in a negative sense but enouraging the brain to explore other avenues.

I followed WW and lost nearly three stone and kept it off for the best part of ten years.

Its not a "ridiculous scheme" at all. Its a very easy way of learning about portion control and how to balance whats going in your mouth over a day/week Really not much different from PM

There is no need to buy any tasteless carp from WW at all - I can say I have ever bought any food with the WW logo

Bitsy_Beans

suki1964 wrote: »

I followed WW and lost nearly three stone and kept it off for the best part of ten years.

Its not a "ridiculous scheme" at all. Its a very easy way of learning about portion control and how to balance whats going in your mouth over a day/week Really not much different from PM

There is no need to buy any tasteless carp from WW at all - I can say I have ever bought any food with the WW logo

I too have done WW. I did lose weight to get married. But during it all it did was make me think about food. Endless discussions about food being good or bad. I don't believe for the majroity of people it teaches them a good relationship with food.
If WW etc were so successful they'd be out of business. wouldn't they? People yo-yo diet on them and that's bad for you.
I am pleased you had success and kept the weight off but for the majority that's not the case. Otherwise there wouldn't be repeat subscription to it.

absolutebounder

Bitsy_Beans wrote: »

Now the first highlighted bit is why I can't face any diet again.

Good because anyone who religiously follows a diet to lose weight is going to face an uphill struggle because of the power of the unconcious mind

The second - well I could do with being a bit richer so perhaps I should give that a go too!

its an old book but is a good one .

How long did it take to train as a hyponotherapist Bounder? Is this something you've done for a long time. I do find it really interesting. Any other books on the subject you'd care to recommend (sorry going off on a tangent).

Ages really.Since the 90s, you never stop learning. There is a lot of free stuff (pm me if you want) but books by Milton Erickson or dave elman shouldnt be missed.

Messed up - Lets face it by following WW or some other "diet" you are brainwashing yourself to stick to some ridiculous scheme or believe that some tastless expensive carp from WW is the only way to lose weight. I don't view hypnotherapy as brainwashing in a negative sense but enouraging the brain to explore other avenues.

Brain washing and hypnosis could be viewed as similar and do share certain elements but with hypnosis you wont do anything that breaches your morals and standards which is why on stage I ask those with no morals or standards to come up:D.
When you see PM or any other hypnotist tell someone to do something and they dont on stage all that has happened is they have strayed over the boundaries of what the persons mind will allow them to do. Stray to far and they will come out of it. Messed up you are quite safe really.

foreign_correspondent

absolutebounder wrote: »

Firstly the diet industry is a multibillion pound outfit and doesnt want you to get thin. Dieticians make use of a few misconceptions. 1) fat makes you fat. hence low fat diets which dont work. 2) carbs are healthy and necessary. Fact there are essential fats which your body cant do without and your brain is the most fatty organ in the body (about 80%. Fact. there are no essential carbs. Now the interesting part. Excess carbs and the body cant store many carbs. what it can are stored as glycogen but only a few minutes worth. The rest are converted to guess what? FAT.

Based on my own experience I would have to disagree with you - I had gallstones a few years ago and had to go onto a very low fat diet. I ate no meals that were above 5% fat for about 18 months, but I ate loads - loads of carbs, veggies, and meat and fish - I like my food - and the weight dropped off me without trying.

Since I stopped eating low fat I have out weight back on...