T-mobile: "of course you can't use a phone in the rain"

aahjnnot

My wife's new T-mobile Google phone stopped working after a heavy rain shower, even though she'd kept it in her bag. T-mobile refuses to fix it, saying that there's evidence of moisture penetration. A new phone wil cost £250.

The rather rude assistant said that she should have realised that the Google phone's slide-out keyboard makes it particularly vulnerable to water ingress. "Of course you can't use a phone in the rain", she said. "You wouldn't watch a television in the rain."

I wouldn't put a television in my pocket, and I can't find anyone who realises that you shouldn't use a phone in the rain. And, of course, my wife didn't use her phone in the rain - she kept it in her bag. I'm thinking that the product isn't fit for purpose and that I need to make a claim under tha Sale of Goods Act.

Anyone have any thoughts?

**Rab**_2

has the phone actualy been sent to the repair centre or was this just advised on the phone or in store?

aahjnnot

**Rab** wrote: »

has the phone actualy been sent to the repair centre or was this just advised on the phone or in store?

It's been sent to the repair centre and returned unfixed with a large photograph of the corroded component.

I don't doubt that the phone has been damaged by water ingress. The argument that I'll be pursuing is that a phone that can't survive a rain shower - especially when reasonable care was taken with it - isn't of satisfactory quality and should be repaired, refunded or replaced under the Sale of Goods Act.

Colliefrog

If a phone has evidence of water damage you're basically stuffed as this invalidates the warranty.
They have no obligation to repair/replace/refund.

**Rab**_2

the sales of goods act wont apply to water damaged phones unless the phone was sold as waterproof

and you wouldnt be able to prove that it was a rain shower that caused this and not someone dropping the phone in a toilet etc

greyster

although the agent was particularly rude i am sorry to say you would have the same problem with any network. The best thing I can advise is to see how much it would cost to repair privately.

HugoSP

It all depends IMO about 'fit for purpose'.

Mobile phone manufacturers and networks are far too ready IMO to write off a failure as the customer's fault. Mobile phones are designed to remain functional in a normal environment. That is to say that they should tand up to being used and kept as one would normally would. They shouldn't suffer damage in your pocket, handbag etc, but dropping them in the bath is outside normal use.

The design feature that protects them in this way is known as 'environmental protection'.

Using a phone in the rain would generally come under normal use, and its environmental protection should ensure it does not suffer.

Taking the OPs example. manufacturers tend to use the arguement that 'Since we designed and manufactured it to widthstand rain, something else must have happened to it for water ingress to take place'.

Whereas, my arguement would be 'Provide conclusive evidence that the products designed environmental protection was intact at the time of failure'. I would want a report that questioned the extent of the water damage. Was it in one area near the join on the casing or was it found in several areas of the phone, consistent with it having been immersed in water?

I have had 2 arguements over repair companies as to whether damage was due to mis use or mis build. In both cases the companies responsible capitulated and repaired the phone free of charge.

I have a background as a manufacturing/production engineer, and altough most of my work was in mechanical products I did get involve with electrical and electronic assemblies and components. I have been involved with several arguements about what the root cause for failure could be both with customers and suppliers.

In the OPs case the root cause could be either mis use, component defect, manufacturing defect or design defect.

Lets take each on its own.

Design Defect

There is a lot of environmental testing associated with mobile phones, that go beyone what is deemed as reasonable use. New designs are dropped on floors, in liquids, scratched and generally tested to physical destruction. i don't know what the exact standards are for mobiles but you could no doubt find these out by research.

Hence the design should be fairly robust. The phone should at least be rain and splash resistant. However, with any environmental testing scenarios can be overlooked. It is quite possible that the design of your phone is deficiant in that it allows rain water to penetrate in a normal use scenario.

Furthermore, the original design could have stood up well to tests etc but subsequent modifications to the component design carried out with a view to cost saving in manufacture may have comprimised the product's environmental protection, thereby introducing a design fault.

A design fault will tend to exhibit itself with a trend of similar 'infant mortality' failures with that product, so it's worth internet searching your phone to see if this is a common problem. Collecting information about similar failures and demonstrating that they are consistant and more prevelent than other mobile phones in general may help your case. You don't necessarily need statistics - you only really need a convincing arguement that this product has a weak point.

Manufacturing Defect.

I used to deal mainly with low volume production, so such a defect that may affect one product may not be present in the next, especially if each product is assembled by a different person, or has different materials (solder etc) used on it. However manufacturing defects in high volume tend to affect batches or production runs rather than individual items. Again, regular failures of this nature being reported on the internet may help your cause.

Ideally a component investigation report would help here but, unless you have easy access to a specialist, it may not be practical.

Component Defect.

This manifasts itself in a similar way to a manufacturing defect, except you are looking at batches or production runs that have benefitted from a shipment or batch of components. For example, if there is an issue with the outer casing, most likely moulded by a supplier, this could affect the phone's environmental protection.

Misuse

This comes under two areas.

Customer is to blame.

The product has not been used or maintained in accordance with the manual. For example, the case may not have been properly assembled after the sim card was inserted.

Customer is not to blame.

The product has been maintained in accordance with the manual, but the manual is deficient in detail, which caused the product to be incorrectly assembled when the sim card was inserted.

The OPs best approach would be to try to find out the extent of the water damage, and propose a counter arguement.

His strategy is simple. Contact a senior manager at the repair centre and insist that more information is provided. 'Water ingress is present therefore warranty is void' is not good enough. Ask that the repair technician is spoken to to find out the extent and area that is affected. How did the water get in there, what actions is the damage consistent with?

You need to insist that the company can demonstrate that the environmental protection was intact. The likely outcome is that you will threaten to take up so much of their time that they will repair the phone free of charge just to get rid of you!

aahjnnot

Thanks, HugoSP - that's really helpful and provides some ammunition for the way that I'm feeling about this. It's notable that as a family we were carrying four mobiles on that rainy day, and the T-mobile phone was the only one that suffered in any way. Ironically, it was also the one that, superficially at least, remained driest.

I do not believe it was in any way misused.

ashnojutsu

aahjnnot wrote: »

I wouldn't put a television in my pocket

That's a good one, I hope you told the t-mobile rep that. :cheesy:

derrick

ashnojutsu wrote: »

That's a good one, I hope you told the t-mobile rep that. :cheesy:

Why would they? You can put a TV in your pocket:D
Casio Pocket TVs.

SONY pocket TVs

Odys Multi Pocket TV 350


There are loads out there;)

HugoSP

The other option the OP has is to go to the manufacturer of the phone. I note you've gone to T Mobile.

You HAVE to persevere with this. They will, if pushed, just capitulate.

Everyone needs to realise that when their phones break down they end up talking to and dealing with individuals who operate via a very basic set of rules.

For example, 'water ingress = dunked in water, so guarantee is void'. That is complete and utter rubbish.

Samsunk once told me that the screen failure on my U600 was not repairable under warranty. When I asked why I was simply told that the component responsible couldn't fail under normal conditions. My initial request for a full engineer's report fell on deaf ears. I explained that I wanted to know why it couldn't fail under normal conditions and what conditions would it be expected to fail under. I also told them that I wanted to know what the component actually was an how it was used so that I could do my own research on common causes and effects of failure.

The idiot of a manager I spoke to at the repair centre was left floundering. He had absolutely no idea what to say or when to say it. He ended up barking company policy at me. He would not co operate. I explained to him that I had a right to ask detailed questions about the failure in order that I may reach my own conclusion as to whether I was being treated fairly, as Trading Standards would no doubt take a dim view in his failure to provide satisfactory answers to my questions.

I told him to return my property so that I could find someone who could examine it and was competent enough to answer my questions, as his employer were obviously too under resourced to provide a technical explanation, despite the fact they repair phones.

What seemed to be obvious is that he somehow felt that a lot of his time could be waisted on this - the phone arrived back 'repaired under warranty'!