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Claire_DC

NASA wrote: »

That 'Grrrrrr' stuff is cringeworthy.

That was uncalled for in my opinion, and totally not related to this topic of conversation. Reported.

Claire_DC

NASA wrote: »

I'll be dying at a time and place of my choosing and I doubt I will be even close to being a pensioner when the time comes so I guess you could say that I never intend to get old.

I'll take my chances with never getting a disability - if I was to I could always implement my intention never to get old a bit sooner.

What a fool you are then.

This also begs the question that if you'd rather kill yourself before enduring disability or old age and all the problems they bring then why are you seemingly so against people receiving the disability benefits? Surely you'd be in support of providing more money/support and independance for all the people who aren't taking what may be the easy way out, and who are dealing with all these disability related problems day in and day out?

alwaysonthego_2

Claire_DC wrote: »

What a fool you are then.

This also begs the question that if you'd rather kill yourself before enduring disability or old age and all the problems they bring then why are you seemingly so against people receiving the disability benefits? Surely you'd be in support of providing more money/support and independance for all the people who aren't taking what may be the easy way out, and who are dealing with all these disability related problems day in and day out?

Is that how you talk to people with severe depression who are feeling suicidal?

alwaysonthego_2

Claire_DC wrote: »

That was uncalled for in my opinion, and totally not related to this topic of conversation. Reported.

and I have reported your post below :rolleyes:

lisaj_3

People don't understand that ESA is not a benefit in the sense all previous benefits have been. It is a conditional benefit and involves 'conditionality'. I watched all the Grand Committees and listened to all the discussions and eventually you realise quite how fundamental this change is. At one point some Tory Lords turned up from the Constitutional Committee and said that a DWP officer or a private contractor taking away benefits from people without any sort of court being involved is unconstitutional and against Human Rights. CarerWatch is consulting with Liberty about this at the moment and we'll post about it on CW camapign blog if we get any where.

The Minister keeps saying that ESA is not a right - it is something you get in return for 'moving nearer to the workplace'. And whether you are complying and trying hard enough is judged by this advisor. If you 'agree' a program of activity then they see this as a contract and they can sanction you for not doing it. This is where we think people with severe mental illness might be confused and agree to do things under pressure that aren't realistic.

Lots of Lords make the point that this makes the advisor who is trying to help you get back in to work both a friend and a policeman. The particular issues around mental health and paranoia and pressure and threats as they are perceived by people with severe mental illness are a big concern.

But to answer the question put above - I think it is great if all sick and disabled people can be helped to get back to work. CW is not arguing against any of the back to work help and initiatives. It's the pressure and sanctions designed for the workshy that we don't like.

But if any disabled person wants total equality and parity and to be put under the same pressure and coercion to get a job as a fit person then I can understand that.

My concern is mainly with people with severe mental health issues where courts normally take a more sympathetic position. It is sometimes hard with a mental illness to follow instructions and to stand up for yourself and explain how things are for you. We have consulted with service users on mental health sites and none of them want to be out under direction and pressure. That is why we ae campaignign for protection for them. But other disablilities must speak for themselves.

If the idea of having pressure put on you to get a job is OK with you - then ESA will be fine for you. But don't sleep walk in to it and then find that the pressure is not helpful. I should be very interested in how people feel about this.

Professor Gregg designed a support group for people with severe conditions and the government is putting hardly any one in it. This is what we think is wrong. The support group is a place where people could have all the help they wanted back to work but no threats and sanctions and that is where we are arguing that people with schizophrenia and bi polar should go. I would have guessed that people with other severe conditions might want their disability charities to wake up and make the same argument for this protection for them. But I may be wrong. Pehaps with a physical disability being pressured like this is helpful. I wouldn't think anxiety was helpful with most disabilities but I don't know.

We would be prepared at CarerWatch to extend our campaign for protection to other disability groups if people wanted it. Anyone can join our board and join the campaign. There isn't much time because this all gets decided in October.

NASA_2

Claire_DC wrote: »

What a fool you are then.

This also begs the question that if you'd rather kill yourself before enduring disability or old age and all the problems they bring then why are you seemingly so against people receiving the disability benefits? Surely you'd be in support of providing more money/support and independance for all the people who aren't taking what may be the easy way out, and who are dealing with all these disability related problems day in and day out?

I tend to think that what I plan to do is quite unselfish.If everyone did what I plan to do, and that isnt something I would recommend just incase someon tries to make an issue of it, then the benefit system would be spared millions if not billions of pounds.

And its nothing to do with not wanting to get old or not wanting to live with a disability. Those are incidental.

Vicky123

Who cares about the benefit system up against the value of someone's life?
I respect anyone's choice in whether to live or die but don't see why it is brought into the public arena for discussion relating to the benefit system, like it or not other people will be affected, so saying you are not recommending it and then adding on money saved is in itself making an issue out of it.
Vicky

Claire_DC

alwaysonthego wrote: »

Is that how you talk to people with severe depression who are feeling suicidal?

Nope, it's how I talk to people who have acted in a way I do not like towards elderly and disabled people and are then throwing suicide into the mix - it's not a very welcome addition to the thread (along with most of your other posts, especially where you say to scrap elderly peoples buss passes as you don't care). Also the manner in which you said about comitting suicide was very much blas! - and possibly not even serious, and thus I have treated it so.

Besides which, I also have severe depression as a result of many bad things happening to me, plus arthritis, diabetes and polycystic ovaries (whilst being tested for other problems too) but you don't see me throwing out comments like that, or belittling the aged and disabled population and making judgements on what I think they should or should not be doing with their lives and disability allowances.

I am sorry if you are going through a rough time, and believe me I know how it feels, but I really think you should think about expressing yourself in a better manner if you don't wish for replies like mine where I/somebody didn't know your situation because of how you have projected yourself on here thus far.

I hope you get your issues sorted out though.

Claire_DC

alwaysonthego wrote: »

and I have reported your post below :rolleyes:

Fair enough, but I posted mine without knowing your situation and could only base my post on how you had conducted yourself on here. No malice was meant by it, unlike some of your posts it seems.

Claire_DC

NASA wrote: »

I tend to think that what I plan to do is quite unselfish.If everyone did what I plan to do, and that isnt something I would recommend just incase someon tries to make an issue of it, then the benefit system would be spared millions if not billions of pounds.

And its nothing to do with not wanting to get old or not wanting to live with a disability. Those are incidental.

It's not unselfish, believe me... my cousin hung herself a few years ago and the family were left reeling. Her mum died a year later. It's because of this that I realised that this was not a way out, and it was the 'easy' way out for those ending things but not for those who were left behind. Also, whilst you may save the money in benefits or whatever, your family will have to find money to pay for a funeral, the cost of the police, ambulance and hospital services will still be used on your case.. and even more so as the police will have to get to the bottom of what happened.

Also, what about the person that finds you after you have ended your life early? Have you thought about what it could do to them? They could end up on benefits from the trauma of finding you, and your family could also suffer and end up on benefits too... no money saved there then... possibly even more being spent to be honest as you'll still have had all your medical costs paid for on top of everything too. Suicide is not an econoomy option both in financial and emotional terms.

Also, you seem like you're planning this for in the future... who is to say you won't get better? I really hope you do to be honest. x