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spikeysoul

Sorry rosemaryuk - I'm from that well hated place Hull (now people are defo going to think I'm benefit scrounging scum - sigh)

I'm sorry to take the thread off topic - but healy isn't there supposed to be a point at which once you are in the work related activity group that you HAVE to do work related activity set you by your pathways provider? I was under the impression that currently you only have to have 6 work focused interviews that results in advice you don't have to take.

However in future if that provider decides that you would benefit from CBT, a condition management course, an education/training course or a work trial faliure to take up the advice will result in sanctions. If I am totally off the mark on this then I am sorry, but it was the impression I had.

This worries me becasue the pathways workers have no medical training - so couldn't tell if CBT or a condition management course is right for someone or not. They also are not in position to judge how fit someone is to do x ammount of hours from a couple of hours interviews.

I'm also slightly against ESA due to the drop in my income, which is only going to get worse until it's caught up with ESA rates - so much for better off on ESA.

alwaysonthego_2

spikeysoul wrote: »

Sorry rosemaryuk - I'm from that well hated place Hull (now people are defo going to think I'm benefit scrounging scum - sigh)

I am only down the road from you, well about 30 miles on the east coast.

I am really curious to know whether Lisa thinks that all people classed as being disabled should not work at all but to only claim sickness benefits. Of course there are people who cannot work at all, but there are people who on Ib could be working in jobs that would be suitable. Surely they would be financially better off, aswell as meeting people and gaining self confidence.

healy

spikeysoul wrote: »

Sorry rosemaryuk - I'm from that well hated place Hull (now people are defo going to think I'm benefit scrounging scum - sigh)

I'm sorry to take the thread off topic - but healy isn't there supposed to be a point at which once you are in the work related activity group that you HAVE to do work related activity set you by your pathways provider? I was under the impression that currently you only have to have 6 work focused interviews that results in advice you don't have to take.

However in future if that provider decides that you would benefit from CBT, a condition management course, an education/training course or a work trial faliure to take up the advice will result in sanctions. If I am totally off the mark on this then I am sorry, but it was the impression I had.

This worries me becasue the pathways workers have no medical training - so couldn't tell if CBT or a condition management course is right for someone or not. They also are not in position to judge how fit someone is to do x ammount of hours from a couple of hours interviews.

I'm also slightly against ESA due to the drop in my income, which is only going to get worse until it's caught up with ESA rates - so much for better off on ESA.

The plan is to make it compulsory for people to take up work related activity or face a reduction in benefits but they do not have the power to do this yet.

Without checking I think it maybe the current Welfare Reform Bill that is going through Parliament and the Lords at the moment that will give them this power.

spikeysoul

It's the compulsory bit that worries me - especially when it comes to unqualified people deciding on what are health treatments. Equally as worrying is being made to do too much voluntry work or too many hours on a course - one that would deteriorate someones condition. There are definatly some human rights isues going on there - especially if peoples specialists, consultants and GP's are not going to form any part of the decision as to what is apropriate. If they start saying that the ATOS Dr's are qualified enough to make this assesment then the world really has gone to the dogs.

For example - I have a condition that responds to physiotherapy, for years I was sent to ordinary phisiotherapists used to dealing with normal joints who made my condition worse, gave me a multitude of incorrect advice and are part of the reason I now walk with crutches and use a wheelchair outside. not their fault, would not have happened had i been Dx correctly. I now see a specialist physio who absolutly does wonders for me - and I am progressing, although rather slowly.

The perfect condition management course for someone with joint problems is physiotherapy. Now I don't believe for a second that I would be sent to such a specialised phisiotherapist as the one I see now - yet if I didn't comply with the benefits advisor and do the physio set for me by a normally trained physio I would loose my benefit. However I could seriously deteriorate the stability that remains in my joints by doing exercises set for me by a physio used to dealing with normal joint problems.

EDIT: I wish I could just go back to bloody work and not have to worry about this !!!! - I'm bloomin educated enough to earn twice what I'm on right now - why wouldn't I - I LIKE work - Oh yeah I can't so I'm stuck Grrrrrr!

PS - anyone know an employer that wouldn't mind me having a bed in the office so that when I HAVE to sleep I can, so that when I've had to take the meds that make me squiffy won't mind all my work needing to be redone. That won't mind me being off sick more than I'm in - do you think i should go into politics?

NASA_2

That 'Grrrrrr' stuff is cringeworthy.

lisaj_3

'At the moment people claiming ESA do not have to do anything other than attend work focused interviews. The benefit is not judged on the amount of effort made to get back to work. Claimants do not have to take part in work related activity with the threat of sanctions if they do not. Nobody is being forced to take a job.'

Why don't you go to the CarerWatch site and click on the links to the recent Grand Committees in the Lords (links to iplayer and written Hansard) but I reccommend the live iplayer because you can hear and see the Minister and make your own mind up what an ignorant man he is.

It's coming in very gently at the moment but they have taken the powers to do what they like when they like.

When asked what would happen if someone with a severe mental illness failed to show up for an appointment the Minister says quite clearly that they will get a letter telling them they have failed to comply and can be sanctioned. When asked if this was fair for people with a mental illness the Minister says that if the contraactor identifies the claimant as having a mental impairment such as mental illness, learning disability, stroke or autism then at the first interview he will read out the 'conditionality' instructions again so that the person is quite clear about the sanctions for not complying.

That is the breath taking level of ignorance that the Minster displays. You have the first interview which you are 'required' to attend and then six more and then a program is worked out for you to follow. It is all designed to harass and put pressure on the fit workshy and is totally inappropriate for people who are really ill.

As they have no way of separating one from the other and don't intend to try they have put all sick and disabled people in to the system and the sooner the really sick and disabled wake up and cry foul the better.

One of the nastiest aspects of it is that if you ask them what will happen in any detail they say - the contractor will use his judgement and will have more training - do you want your life to be at the mercy of some contractor. The sick and disabled no longer have any rights - if they fail to comply with direction and get sanctioned they have to show 'good cause'. The DWP is judge and jury. Please watch the Grand Committees and make your own minds up.

What I don't understand is why the disability charities have let this happen and not raised the alarm. I don't want to frighten people but a bit of protest really would be a good idea.

healy

lisaj wrote: »

'At the moment people claiming ESA do not have to do anything other than attend work focused interviews. The benefit is not judged on the amount of effort made to get back to work. Claimants do not have to take part in work related activity with the threat of sanctions if they do not. Nobody is being forced to take a job.'

Why don't you go to the CarerWatch site and click on the links to the recent Grand Committees in the Lords (links to iplayer and written Hansard) but I reccommend the live iplayer because you can hear and see the Minister and make your own mind up what an ignorant man he is.

It's coming in very gently at the moment but they have taken the powers to do what they like when they like.

When asked what would happen if someone with a severe mental illness failed to show up for an appointment the Minister says quite clearly that they will get a letter telling them they have failed to comply and can be sanctioned. When asked if this was fair for people with a mental illness the Minister says that if the contraactor identifies the claimant as having a mental impairment such as mental illness, learning disability, stroke or autism then at the first interview he will read out the 'conditionality' instructions again so that the person is quite clear about the sanctions for not complying.

That is the breath taking level of ignorance that the Minster displays. You have the first interview which you are 'required' to attend and then six more and then a program is worked out for you to follow. It is all designed to harass and put pressure on the fit workshy and is totally inappropriate for people who are really ill.

As they have no way of separating one from the other and don't intend to try they have put all sick and disabled people in to the system and the sooner the really sick and disabled wake up and cry foul the better.

One of the nastiest aspects of it is that if you ask them what will happen in any detail they say - the contractor will use his judgement and will have more training - do you want your life to be at the mercy of some contractor. The sick and disabled no longer have any rights - if they fail to comply with direction and get sanctioned they have to show 'good cause'. The DWP is judge and jury. Please watch the Grand Committees and make your own minds up.

What I don't understand is why the disability charities have let this happen and not raised the alarm. I don't want to frighten people but a bit of protest really would be a good idea.

All I was saying was that at the moment the only obligation is to attend and take part in the work focused interviews. There are 6 work focused interviews in total not 7. As the bill has not been finalised yet they do not have the power to do anything else yet but it seems likely that they will eventually.

I just wanted to make it clear how the situation is now.

Vicky123

Don't you just love this tax payers money argument as though the disabled have never been taxpayers!
I and my entire family have worked and paid our taxes and quite frankly can think of hundreds of things I would not want my tax money spent on before I looked at the disabled and elderly.
My son gets a total crap cheapy cheap education while my taxes go on everyone else's childrens education, therapies that improve his health are bought privately and not funded by our PCT so if he were able to play on a PS3 then thats a very small price compared to a proper education.
I actually would rather not have the DLA and the authorities funded a decent education instead, respite, therapies etc course it is tons cheaper to give DLA so consider yourselves getting a bargain in this instance.
Vicky

spikeysoul

Thanks for clarifying the current situation healy - it wasn't something I was sure on - maybe this needs a separate thread on its own - although maybe better placed on the disability and dosh board?

Vicky123 - it's possible the changes coming with this green paper may make you better off (I'm guessing some people will be). It's also possible it won't, but you are right DLA/AA - cheap at half the price in quite a few cases. Unfortunalty some people are so entreanched in their views they will never see past the fraud and percieved fraud. I wish you and your boy well.

Are you in touch with the family fund? Probably are but one of my nephews has CP and they were fantastic towards the whole family.

healy

spikeysoul wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying the current situation healy - it wasn't something I was sure on - maybe this needs a separate thread on its own - although maybe better placed on the disability and dosh board?

Vicky123 - it's possible the changes coming with this green paper may make you better off (I'm guessing some people will be). It's also possible it won't, but you are right DLA/AA - cheap at half the price in quite a few cases. Unfortunalty some people are so entreanched in their views they will never see past the fraud and percieved fraud. I wish you and your boy well.

Are you in touch with the family fund? Probably are but one of my nephews has CP and they were fantastic towards the whole family.

Its ok things often go off topic. I do not think it would be better in D and D because there are alot less viewers and posters on that forum.