Railcard woes - family asked to leave train

custardy

yenbat wrote: »

Thanks for that - ironically the new tickets and new railcard were never inspected and our entire return journey was not inspected ! Wouldn't it be a good idea for the terms and conditions to be adhered to by all parties ie. the passenger is required to produce the actual card at the point of purchase, or perhaps a unique pin number if online, then have a guarantee of inspection as well ? The travel advisor at the station of our arrival actually said to me that if I bought tickets and didn't have my card with me then he would believe I had one ! If there is level of trust at the point of purchase, going against the railcard's own terms and conditions then why should the travelling part of the contract be any different ? There should be no ability to buy tickets without a railcard to get a discount, which would provide a safeguard for those unfortunate enough to misplace or lose their card mid journey at the point of inspection. I bought mine specifically for this one journey, thinking that you had to buy the discount card before buying the discounted tickets ( just seemed logical to me !)

so basically add more stages/processs to everyones journey because you cant carry a card?

glider3560

yenbat wrote: »

Thanks for that - ironically the new tickets and new railcard were never inspected and our entire return journey was not inspected ! Wouldn't it be a good idea for the terms and conditions to be adhered to by all parties ie. the passenger is required to produce the actual card at the point of purchase, or perhaps a unique pin number if online, then have a guarantee of inspection as well ? The travel advisor at the station of our arrival actually said to me that if I bought tickets and didn't have my card with me then he would believe I had one ! If there is level of trust at the point of purchase, going against the railcard's own terms and conditions then why should the travelling part of the contract be any different ? There should be no ability to buy tickets without a railcard to get a discount, which would provide a safeguard for those unfortunate enough to misplace or lose their card mid journey at the point of inspection. I bought mine specifically for this one journey, thinking that you had to buy the discount card before buying the discounted tickets ( just seemed logical to me !)

Even if they did check you had a railcard when you bought tickets, how would they know the person using the card has a railcard? I could go and buy tickets for all my friends, using my railcard, and give them the tickets to use. Under your system, this would happen and the rail companies would be losing revenue.

If someone is too dumb to realise they need to carry the railcard, then they should expect to pay extra for their journey (plus a possible penalty fare).

Ste_C

The system works fine as it. Hundreds of thousands of people have railcards and use them without any problems...

walter_wobblebottom

Peeps do genuinley forget their railcard,i think a more compassionate idea would be for them to charge you full fare as per rules,then if you can produce your valid railcard within say three weeks, you can claim a refund,minus say a £10 admin fee,something like that

advent1122

yenbat wrote: »

It is very interesting to hear the thoughts of others on this subject - not quite sure what advent1122 means, perhaps he would like to explain his comment further.

"crying children" does not add anything to the story, except for people to say, nasty guard, imagine throwing a woman off the train with crying children.
You were expecting responses along those lines - and didn't get them.
You have to carry a RailCard.
What is to stop me - who do not own a Railcard - booking my tickets, getting the discount, and then playing whole hell when the guard asks me for proof of my entitlement.
Think about it........

sparkleworld

You purchased your tickets 2 months ahead of your travel arrangements, Surely you placed them in a safe place until your travel and then checked that you had them before you embarked on your journey. So WHY when they arrived did you not put them or keep them with the family rail card, which comes in a very convenient bright red wallet exactly for this purpose
Incidentally when I purchased and used my tickets alongside a family rail card it DID state they were only valid with with the railcard.

I would not be very happy if I had observed the guard allowing you discounted travel without proving it as everybody would try it on, so these safeguards are put in place for that reason.

Regards
*Sparkle*

belisha-beacon

I do sympathise with your situation, it's very stressful. But what you're saying is not consistent, and I think that given that the railcard terms and conditions are very clear, you have to accept some responsibility for not having read them. You said:

yenbat wrote: »

My point is that if a discount card of any kind is purchased and an item is bought using that card, surely that purchase and the goods gained from that purchase are proof enough of the discount card's use. I cannot think of any other sphere of commerce where a product is purchased at a discount and then the discount voucher, card or code has to be produced for a second time to prove the purchase is valid. I am well aware of the Railcard's terms and conditions of use - what I am saying is that an honest oversight or worse still, the theft of the card, should not be classed in the same severity as fare avoidance by not purchasing any ticket at all. I had already purchased 4 tickets, 4 seat reservations but forgot the card, yet we were treated no differently to a family who had no intention of paying in the first place.

But you also pointed out that you hadn't had to produce the card to buy the tickets in the first place. That's why the guards need to see it - they need to know that you are entitled to the reduced price tickets and also that you haven't got a mate using your card with cheap tickets further down the train whilst you benefit from it as well!

yenbat

walter_wobblebottom wrote: »

Peeps do genuinley forget their railcard,i think a more compassionate idea would be for them to charge you full fare as per rules,then if you can produce your valid railcard within say three weeks, you can claim a refund,minus say a £10 admin fee,something like that

Thankyou for that excellent suggestion - it's good enough for the police who give you several days to produce your driving license I believe ! I could have produced proof at the desination station by accessing the railcard website with my password or even on my mobile.

It appears that it's ok to buy a discounted ticket without a railcard and that you are presumed guilty of fare evasion unless you can prove otherwise. What proof of identity is required when you produce the railcard other than waving it in front of the guard ? Could someone steal the card then use it - what safeguards are there ? It all seems back to front to me. I don't seem to have been sent any of the items listed such as red wallets or information leaflets - it was just a card.

I will stick to the car in future - it seems a lot simpler !

RobertoMoir

Y'know, I'm sorry that your journey was spoiled, but sooner or later you have to say that maybe they could have handled things better but you were in the wrong too, shrug your shoulders and move on with your life.

wannaberichbtch

yenbat wrote: »

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I will stick to the car in future - it seems a lot simpler !

That really would be a waste of money considering how much you've spent on railcards, would do the research and find the cheapest deals, bitterness is self defeating.