Railcard woes - family asked to leave train

advent1122

I love the "crying children" angle.
As though that makes any difference.

gordikin

advent1122 wrote: »

I love the "crying children" angle.
As though that makes any difference.

It does in the OP's opinion...it obviously makes them a special case in their eyes

barvid

yenbat wrote: »

Thanks for your replies - can I clarify that only since discussing our experience with others have I discovered many who have been treated with more kindness than we were. My elderly mother mislaid her senior citizens railcard whilst travelling and was not treated with much respect by the guard but was allowed to complete her journey.
We are not experienced rail travellers and I interpreted the railcard as a means of purchasing discounted tickets just as purchasing Tesco deals tokens then spending the tokens without having to produce the Clubcard as proof of entitlement.
The railcard website also states that the card must be produced when purchasing the tickets but when purchasing online there is no proof of ownership required. This led to my confusion.

It's probably easier to tell that your elderly mother is a senior citizen just by looking at her than it is to tell that you have a railcard sitting at home.

MunnyBoiler

Sorry but you do need to carry your railcard with you on all journeys that you use the card to obtain discounted tickets. The ticket inspector was completely within his rights, as brutal as it might seem.

Put it down to a learning experience.

yenbat

It is very interesting to hear the thoughts of others on this subject - not quite sure what advent1122 means, perhaps he would like to explain his comment further. I was giving a factual account of our experience, not looking for sympathy votes via my children.

My point is that if a discount card of any kind is purchased and an item is bought using that card, surely that purchase and the goods gained from that purchase are proof enough of the discount card's use. I cannot think of any other sphere of commerce where a product is purchased at a discount and then the discount voucher, card or code has to be produced for a second time to prove the purchase is valid. I am well aware of the Railcard's terms and conditions of use - what I am saying is that an honest oversight or worse still, the theft of the card, should not be classed in the same severity as fare avoidance by not purchasing any ticket at all. I had already purchased 4 tickets, 4 seat reservations but forgot the card, yet we were treated no differently to a family who had no intention of paying in the first place.

If a family boarded a train in Edinburgh going to the south west and losing their card en route it would be a full fare of over £1000 - who benefits from that ? The purpose of a discount card is to enable travel for those on a lower income who are the least likely to be able to afford an on the spot fare over 11 times the original one.

I hope that nobody contributing to this thread loses their card the next time they travel by train !

glider3560

yenbat wrote: »

I had already purchased 4 tickets, 4 seat reservations but forgot the card, yet we were treated no differently to a family who had no intention of paying in the first place.

Because that is what the railway byelaws and conditions of carraige say. Think about it again, anyone can pass a train ticket to anyone else therefore you would have to check the railcard everytime.

yenbat wrote: »

If a family boarded a train in Edinburgh going to the south west and losing their card en route it would be a full fare of over £1000 - who benefits from that ? The purpose of a discount card is to enable travel for those on a lower income who are the least l

You can get hold of a replacement (or permission to travel without a railcard) from a ticket office for a nominal fee.

Ste_C

You still need to have proof that you're a cardholder.

Why would you be treated any differently to fare avoiders? The guards have no idea whether you're genuine or not and they can't give people the benefit of the doubt otherwise everyone would buy discounted tickets and use the "I've forgotten my card" line.

The rail company are totally in the right here and you need to accept that. You haven't been treated unfairly at all.

The example you give of a family losing their rail card is extreme but in such circumstances you might be able to report the card missing BEFORE you board the train and explain what has happened.

And yes the purpose of discount cards is to help people out, but all discount cards have terms and conditions and basic usage instructions - try reading them in future.

lolarentt

yenbat wrote: »

My point is that if a discount card of any kind is purchased and an item is bought using that card, surely that purchase and the goods gained from that purchase are proof enough of the discount card's use.

As said previously you can buy tickets online, or using automatic machines at railway stations, where you only have to claim you have a card for the discount to be applied - you don't even need to produce it to get through the automatic ticket barriers - so they must have some way of ensuring you actually have the relevant card, and making you show it on demand seems fair enough!

Having said that I use a Network card mainly on > 1 hour journeys to London and can't remember when a ticket inspector last asked to see the card itself to support the ticket he was checking!

ShockingPink

lolarentt wrote: »

As said previously you can buy tickets online, or using automatic machines at railway stations, where you only have to claim you have a card for the discount to be applied - you don't even need to produce it to get through the automatic ticket barriers - so they must have some way of ensuring you actually have the relevant card, and making you show it on demand seems fair enough!

Having said that I use a Network card mainly on > 1 hour journeys to London and can't remember when a ticket inspector last asked to see the card itself to support the ticket he was checking!

I have a disabled person's railcard and had never (in 6 years!) been asked to show it - until recently at the barrier at Euston. I had to rummage in my bag for it as I was so surprised! I told the ticket inspector and he laughed. Having said that, I'd never travel without it...

yenbat

Thanks for that - ironically the new tickets and new railcard were never inspected and our entire return journey was not inspected ! Wouldn't it be a good idea for the terms and conditions to be adhered to by all parties ie. the passenger is required to produce the actual card at the point of purchase, or perhaps a unique pin number if online, then have a guarantee of inspection as well ? The travel advisor at the station of our arrival actually said to me that if I bought tickets and didn't have my card with me then he would believe I had one ! If there is level of trust at the point of purchase, going against the railcard's own terms and conditions then why should the travelling part of the contract be any different ? There should be no ability to buy tickets without a railcard to get a discount, which would provide a safeguard for those unfortunate enough to misplace or lose their card mid journey at the point of inspection. I bought mine specifically for this one journey, thinking that you had to buy the discount card before buying the discounted tickets ( just seemed logical to me !)