Major Changes To Forum Policy

ThinkingOfLinking

Quasar wrote: »

Looking at the I won, I won, I won board, I doubt it :rotfl: . Some peeps win the weirdest things.

Yeah, I've had condoms, glue and 2 packets of Rowntrees Randoms....but on the plus side, have had some wonderful things I'd never have been able to afford, specifically Glastonbury tickets and the Daily Mail Wish List.

it_takes_two

marleyboy wrote: »

9.6 If you disagree with a decision of a Forum Team member, you should email your appeal to [EMAIL="webmaster@moneysavingexpert.com"]webmaster@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL]. You must not use the Chat Forum to argue any decision of our Forum Team.

it_takes_two wrote: »

Martin,if a user emails the webmaster about a decision,are we guaranteed a reply,apart from an automated reply that does'nt really help?

Well is this a proper appeal system?Seems you just get an automated response

MSE_Martin

People write to the webmaster for all types of reasons - disputing abuse is tiny proportion - and therefore the auto-response is v. important.

However we have a policy that we dont give reasons for why threads are deleted (esp in the non moneysaving boards) as they aren't a priortiy and it takes too many resources. So if someone is appealing on that - the answer is "we dont give reasons." Yet if there is a substantive point then it will be replied to.

I think again much of this is actually a confusion over forum team and board guides

If you have a problem with somethgin a board guide has done... report it to the [EMAIL="abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL]

If you have a problem with soemthing the forum team (ie abuse) team has done (and the abuse team are totally seperate from board guides, and there is no link between them, and they don't post on the site) you can write to [EMAIL="webmaster@moneysavingexpert.com"]webmaster@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL]. Yet in most cases there is no answer as its things that we simply don't comment on and can't. (and have been explained why many times before- if someone could find the link (Im not meant to be typing re RSI) and poost it to my explanation that'd be great.

MSE_Martin

it_takes_two wrote: »

And does one get a reply from anyone from the team concerning the appeal?

Depends what they're appealing. If as i explained above its something relevant (ie not "why was my post deleted") they do. We try our best, however this is a free forum not a court of law. We have a professional abuse team - to set up an appelate forum of any depth is overkill - i have to rely on my team to do what is a very difficult job as well as they can.

As for appealing PPR - most of those for substantial users have been discussed with the webmaster anyway - so it is unlikley it will be overturned. Though it will be looked at.

Occassionally I ask about the reason for PPRs myself, all i've ever enquired on seem reasonable to me. And Im afraid if the new policy of more interventionism which is what users want, mean that a few people get PPRd when its on the cusp and perhaps a little harsh, thats something we'll all have to live with.

Martin


Martin

LittleMissAspie

MSE_Martin wrote: »

B. We will also be asking people to report those being abusive to newbies (and yes we're aware some may be spammers, trolls or AEs, but then they should simply be reported to abuse or spam button pressed and not responded to anyway)

Can I say that it would be much easier to report horrid posts if the abuse system was within the forums. I mean, when I click on the abuse button it asks me to set up an email account. I suppose my email program isn't associated with my browser. If the button went to a page with a dropdown list for why you are reporting the post, I would be much more likely to use it.

magyar

LittleMissAspie wrote: »

Can I say that it would be much easier to report horrid posts if the abuse system was within the forums. I mean, when I click on the abuse button it asks me to set up an email account. I suppose my email program isn't associated with my browser. If the button went to a page with a dropdown list for why you are reporting the post, I would be much more likely to use it.

I agree. Many people nowadays use browser-based email packages like Gmail and Hotmail. These won't be picked up by a mailto: link. Whilst that can be fixed, it's not that easy.

If it could be dealt with via a PM, that would be much easier.

uktyler

MSE_Martin wrote: »

We have a professional abuse team ..

Your 'professional' team can label people as abusive, with little or no comeback, and don't bother to tell the posters, is that fair?

I had a post labeled abusive, I'm trying to find out if your 'professional' team have done the same to any of my other posts, which considering the post they accused me of being abusive on was not, I think is a fair question.

However they won't do this:

forum_team_email wrote:

We have neither the facility nor the resources to be able to pull out
edited posts, unfortunately.

So your team can label people, and they have no way of ever knowing, as searching user names to find if posts have been edited by your team is limited to 300 posts, and not a persons entire posting history.

If you want others to be nice you should start with your staff. The fact that your staff can edit posts with what ever text they want, and not bother to inform the original poster is a joke.

I'm just sorry I have to put this here, but your staff won't give me an explanation as to why these things happen.

forum_team_email wrote:

... we now consider
this matter to be closed and will no longer correspond with you
regarding it.

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi, apologies if this has already been raised - I have scanned this thread but not read it in detail.

I like the idea of a newbie bubble - we were all newbies once and it makes me cross when genuine newbies are jumped on. But I would like to suggest an embargo on newbies making pm's while they are in the bubble.

The reason I ask is that from time to time I get pms from newbies with NO post count, asking me for advice. It is often not something that I have any particular expertise in, but might have made a comment on an old thread that they have picked up on. Sometimes these queries are quite complicated - I had one on 17th July, which has prompted this post.

I ALWAYS tell them politely that I don't give private advice, but if they post their problem on the forums, I'll be happy to contribute. However, when I go back and check, fairly often (not always but quite often) their post count is still 0, and they have never actually posted their problem on the forums. I can't be the only person who gets these PMs, and I do feel that at least sometimes they are 'trolls', although I never respond in that manner. At least if they had to have a minimum post count, newbies would have chance to understand how the forum works, and what PM's are for.

Sorry if this sounds like a whinge - it isn't intended that way. I do sometimes correspond with regulars by PM and am happy to do so, but I feel that newbies' questions are better posted on the forums, so they get the benefit of everyone's experience.

uktyler

MSE_Martin wrote: »

If you have a problem with soemthing the forum team (ie abuse) team has done (and the abuse team are totally seperate from board guides, and there is no link between them, and they don't post on the site) you can write to [EMAIL="webmaster@moneysavingexpert.com"]webmaster@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL]. Yet in most cases there is no answer as its things that we simply don't comment on and can't. (and have been explained why many times before- if someone could find the link (Im not meant to be typing re RSI) and poost it to my explanation that'd be great.

You can write to the webmaster, but I can't see the point if no one reads it:

[quote=_email_from_webmaster@moneysavingexpert.com]
...unfortunately there are not the resources to personally read every email, so this is an automatic reply.
[/quote]

So basically it looks like there is no appeals procedure.

I realise it is Martin's site, and his rules, but they don't seem fair to me.

MSE_Martin

uktyler wrote: »

You can write to the webmaster, but I can't see the point if no one reads it:



So basically it looks like there is no appeals procedure.

I realise it is Martin's site, and his rules, but they don't seem fair to me.

I think you are right. Actually this is a cumbersome system. We're going to change it in practice with immediate effect so all correspondence needs to go through [EMAIL="abuse@moneysavingexpert.com"]abuse@moneysavingexpert.com[/EMAIL]

In a free forum such as this a right of appeal is too cumbersome and doesn't make sense. I've checked the other big social networking sites and there is no appeal protocol on the vast majority. The system of appeals was set up before we had a full time forum manager as part of the MSE towers team - and now we have one it is supurfluous

So for the sake of clarity the ruling of the abuse team is final, if you have any questions then email abuse@

As this is a terms and conditions change, it wont be actioned immediately in the T&Cs yet (as that needs doing formally and we're in the midst of a full legal review of forum rules and the T&Cs so it'll be updated then), so technically you can still email webmaster though it will just be forwarded to abuse@

Kind regards

Martin