Blow for sickness benefit claimants

jennihen

Be nice to have a few more employers like you!

Broken_hearted

Where are all the employers coming from to employ all these people? Most run a mile from standard disability, the ones they can easily adapt around such as wheelchair access, speaking computer for blind partialy sighted. People with mental health problems stand no chance in most workplaces. This scheme is not about getting people back to work its about cutting benefits to those who need it to make those who pay tax feel better. Tax will stay just as high as ever so everyone loses.

Rochdale_Pioneers

JasonLVC wrote: »

But the DDA covers discrimination against disabled people in such instances. If I was 70% of the time okay but required a lot of time off (the other 30%) due to my disability then I'd expect the employer to still employee me and to take appropriate action to deal with the 30% time.

So if that means job share or accepting a higher level of sickness from me then so be it. There are no genuine excuses for partially disabled people not to work.

i agree with the principle, but it practice there are very very few employers who will touch people with chronic condition. Job share is a possibility - but what percentage of their time do you pay someone else to do? And to not pay an employee when they are off sick is not allowed - you couldn't set them up part time where the only bit they get paid is when they are not sick.

To do it - and I agree with you that effort is needed - the state would have to compensate the employer for taking the person on. The Incapacity benefit could be partially paid to the employer - wouldn't save the taxpayer any money, but it would unlock another person't productivity and allow them to work and pay taxes.

donaldtramp

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

Which is fine in principle. I identified 3 groups - the cannot work, the could work, and the can work. Get rid of the latter, absolutely. The could work group are difficult. For example, I know someone with a chronic back problem. She is reasonably fit 70% of the time. 10% of the time she is crippled and can't move never mind work, and the other 20% is recovery from being crippled.

How will employers treat people with chronic conditions rocking up to interview saying "I am qualified for the job, but BTW I will spend 30% of the time off sick with no notice"? The excuse for the could work group is not an excuse at all. The simple fact is that their condition makes them unemployable. Take Incapacity benefit off them and pay them JSA instead. After 6 months of being unable to find a job the system will refer them back to Incapacity as they are unemployable on medical grounds.

And the third group - the permanently chronically sick - have no chance of a job as their health simply isn't good enough. FYI existing claimants ARE ALREADY being reviewed by doctors - you talk in outraged tones like once you get Incapacity benefit you're never seen again by a doctor.

I'm past caring.
Genuine people should get support. Which the medicals (independant and seperate from local GP) will sort out. Yup they are seen by their local doctors who are too soft.
Don't try to argue with the figures. The ludicrous overpayments are in BLACK and WHITE in the article.

"ballooned to 2.6 million people"
"Up to 90% are judged fit too work"
the percentages reversed under the new testing regime.

If people "won't work", slash their money to the absolute bare minmum possible. There is no place in our society for them.

I really couldn't give a toss if these losers spend the rest of their lives on a can of Lidls baked beans a day.

Broken_hearted

If you think genuine people receive the help they are entitle to you are delusional all you get is a load of stress and at best ignored.

carolt

What we need is a change in attitude in this country, not just towards people with faux illnesses being allowe to take the !!!!, but more positively, towards finding what people can do and creating work to fit that.

I think it is a criminal waste of talent that millions in this country are under-employed, as well as unemployed. The current tendency towards full-time, on-site jobs, disadvatages millions of individuals (mothers, carers, and those described in this thread who cannot work full-time due to ill-health, but might well be able to do a great job part-time, working from home).

In the internet age, frankly, there ought to be loads these people can do - even if you're not mobile or can't leave the house because of caring responsibilities, you should be able to log on at home and put in a good few hours.

I'm lucky - due to previous skills and experience, I'm able to work as many hours as I have available from home. The money is a lot worse than I'd be getting working in a full-time job, but at least I can work to suit me and my family's needs (I'm not ill that often, but with 3 kids, winter term seems to involve having at least one of them down with something 50% of the time..)

A half-way decent left-wing government would have seen which way the wind is blowing and taken advantage of modern technology and the booming economy to create work like this; the result would be more money flowing into the treasury coffers, a growing economy, and a more highly skilled and productive (and happy) workforce.

But of course, we got the Labour government.

Rochdale_Pioneers

donaldtramp wrote: »

I'm past caring.
Genuine people should get support. Which the medicals (independant and seperate from local GP) will sort out. Yup they are seen by their local doctors who are too soft..

No, the medicals ARE ALREADY done by independent teams. A GP may make the initial diagnosis, but claimants get regularly vetted by non-local doctors.

donaldtramp wrote: »

Don't try to argue with the figures. The ludicrous overpayments are in BLACK and WHITE in the article.

"ballooned to 2.6 million people"
"Up to 90% are judged fit too work"
the percentages reversed under the new testing regime.

If people "won't work", slash their money to the absolute bare minmum possible. There is no place in our society for them.

I really couldn't give a toss if these losers spend the rest of their lives on a can of Lidls baked beans a day.

As I said, I'm fine with that for the majority group who can work. I fear that your "don't care" comment and passing reference to incorrect facts about the genuinely sick and disabled is replicated by most right-thinking Daily Mail frothers who don't even reference your point about them needing support.

The perception is that everyone on Incapacity is a scrounger, that the system is soft and therefore an axe could be taken to existing claimants. The problem with that is that it risks depriving the genuine cases of support and offers no solution to those who want to work but cannot find an employer interested in taking on themr and their chronic condition.

JayScottGreenspan

Most people who can work only have the skills to do a small portion of the jobs that come up on the boards. This is taken into account whilst they are on JSA.

People who can work but who are restricted by certain disabilities often face an even smaller pool of possible jobs. They may also get rejected more often by unscrupulous employers. So they will be on JSA for longer. As long as their JSA claim is treated fairly, where's the problem?

screamer

Donald Tramp, you're an ignorant idiot! If you have so much money then what are you doing trying to save money on MSE? People like myself, and a lot of people out there, have to count every single penny we spend, and would you believe until recently I couldn't afford a tin of beans a day! Tins of beans now cost about 70p. You wonder why I am so broke? Because apparently my income of £500 per month is more than the government says I to live on. Take £150 off that for rent and council tax, (as I said £500 per month is more than the government allows me to live on so the council reduce the allowance accordingly as I don't have kids) I had both gas and electricity meters so take £250 a month off for that, then TV licence, water rates, vets bills and pet foods, mobile phone (epilepsy sufferers need permanent access to a phone), and I was left with nothing. I must be a big fat pie scoffer who is wasting your taxes by being ill. Moderators, I think we should close this subject because the tax payers see the non tax payers as a waste of resources. I have tried my hardest to work, and feel worse about my illness when I am told there is nothing wrong with me and that all benefit claimants are rotten country destroyers. The politicians are destroying this country, and those idiots are all able bodied!!!!

Hazel Blears claimed £110k for her "second home". That is 20 times what I get per year for my first home and every single living expense I have! Please, please, please tell me why we claimants are all such losers??

carolt

screamer wrote: »

Donald Tramp, you're an ignorant idiot! If you have so much money then what are you doing trying to save money on MSE? People like myself, and a lot of people out there, have to count every single penny we spend, and would you believe until recently I couldn't afford a tin of beans a day! Tins of beans now cost about 70p. You wonder why I am so broke? Because apparently my income of £500 per month is more than the government says I to live on. Take £150 off that for rent and council tax, (as I said £500 per month is more than the government allows me to live on so the council reduce the allowance accordingly as I don't have kids) I had both gas and electricity meters so take £250 a month off for that, then TV licence, water rates, vets bills and pet foods, mobile phone (epilepsy sufferers need permanent access to a phone), and I was left with nothing. I must be a big fat pie scoffer who is wasting your taxes by being ill. Moderators, I think we should close this subject because the tax payers see the non tax payers as a waste of resources. I have tried my hardest to work, and feel worse about my illness when I am told there is nothing wrong with me and that all benefit claimants are rotten country destroyers. The politicians are destroying this country, and those idiots are all able bodied!!!!

Hazel Blears claimed £110k for her "second home". That is 20 times what I get per year for my first home and every single living expense I have! Please, please, please tell me why we claimants are all such losers??

Soes it really cost that much?

Even in summertime?

If I were you, I'd check to see who was using up your electricity so outrageously - is your neighbour's use connected or something?