Blow for sickness benefit claimants

Norfolk_Jim

donaldtramp wrote: »

Have a read at this quote from Margaret Thatcher.....
Then get back to me

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

[/ QUOTE]

Whatever else I thought about Thatcher, this is easily the statement I felt she was most wrong about - There IS such a thing as society and the drive towards "everyone for themselves" greatly damaged it.
I see it in my relatives children who have been brought up to look after no1 and see nothing wrong in exploiting the state or breaking the law to do it. The valuable feeling of being a contributing member of society has been replaced by a me,me,me attitude. The pain arises because we are still in transition from a more social(ist) society towards a more American style money focused consumerism driven loose association of consumers and providers with an al out bias towards looking out for no1 - and imo, the two systems can not co exist as one is an anathema to the other and the other sees no wrong in exploiting the former.

SingleSue

donaldtramp wrote: »

No I'm not, i'm actually very intelligent. What level of education did you acheive? Tertiary, Secondary or Primary:rolleyes:?

This "government" you are speaking about, this big nasty state, is actually the collection of wills of the people in the UK.
At least it is supposed to be. Clown just seems to do whatever he can to spend all of our cash and future generations cash. But I digress.

Don't people on the "take" or in receipt of benefits realise that is is the goodwill, money and hardwork of others that is feeding/clothing/housing them and allowing them to breed??

Yes, most do realise this....but it doesn't mean they are on the 'take' in the way you mean. Also a fair few never actually planned to end up on benefits and may have had their children before when working and have not bred since going on benefits (would be hard in my case, had a hysterectomy 8 years ago!)

This "nasty" governemnt is actually EVERYONE else!!
Benefits claimants survive off the back of hard work of other people.
This is what irks me. It's just, "I'm entitled to this," "I'm entitled to that" without any realisation (or thanks for) the goodwill of other people.
It's an absolute disgrace.

Just a wee bit too much generalisation here, not all benefit claimants will think like that, I would say there is a healthy amount who actually feel embarrassed about claiming and would love nothing more than to not be claiming.

Also, there will also be a healthy proportion (especially in these trying times), who will have worked for the majority of their lives and also paid into the kitty, some at the higher tax bracket.

Have a read at this quote from Margaret Thatcher.....
Then get back to me

"I think we've been through a period where too many people have been given to understand that if they have a problem, it's the government's job to cope with it. 'I have a problem, I'll get a grant.' 'I'm homeless, the government must house me.' They're casting their problem on society. And you know, there is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation."

Some good points from Maggie there and it must be said, as I have above, that there are a fair few who have met obligations in the past and are now needing some assistance...not every benefit claimant is a career one with no intention to work and only take take take.

If you have been judged to have enough money, what more do you want,
Some of mine:rolleyes:?

£250 a month for bills? are you having a laugh?

Sorry but you're obviously not as "entitled" to our money as much as you thought you were, eh?

With pre-payment meters, it is very possible, especially in the winter...hence why I had my electric one changed to a normal one a few months ago. My gas one (still on pre-payment at present) has now been discovered to have had problems..it built up an overpayment (despite the meter not showing it and continually saying it needed more top ups!) of £80 over the 3 months in winter!

Didn't help me in the winter though did it when I had to constantly feed it to get just the minimum of heat in the house and go without food to feed the blooming thing.

donaldtramp

Yes, most do realise this

I totally disagree., most do NOT realise nor appreciate they are living off the goodwill of others.

Just a wee bit too much generalisation here, not all benefit claimants will think like that,

Too much generalistaion? Did you read the article from the FT? There is quite balatantly a huge proportion "on the take" from the figures printed.
You can't possibly argue with that, (but you will:rolleyes:)

Also, there will also be a healthy proportion (especially in these trying times), who will have worked for the majority of their lives and also paid into the kitty, some at the higher tax bracket.

There is also a "healthy proportion" who have NEVER worked a day in their lifes and/or are on the take. As proven by the first post in this thread.

I'm really glad they're getting found out and their money(MY MONEY) cut.

that there are a fair few who have met obligations in the past and are now needing some assistance...

I agree but I refer you back to the first post which clearly highlights the number of chancers who have been trying to claim mor ethan they were due.

And Jim, you've misinterpreted that quote massively in my opinion.

It isn't about me me me screw everyone esle. It is about meeting your responsibilities.

And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It's our duty to look after ourselves and then, also, to look after our neighbour. People have got the entitlements too much in mind, without the obligations. There's no such thing as entitlement, unless someone has first met an obligation

baileysbattlebus

screamer wrote: »

Donald Tramp, you're an ignorant idiot! If you have so much money then what are you doing trying to save money on MSE? People like myself, and a lot of people out there, have to count every single penny we spend, and would you believe until recently I couldn't afford a tin of beans a day! Tins of beans now cost about 70p. You wonder why I am so broke? Because apparently my income of £500 per month is more than the government says I to live on. Take £150 off that for rent and council tax, (as I said £500 per month is more than the government allows me to live on so the council reduce the allowance accordingly as I don't have kids) I had both gas and electricity meters so take £250 a month off for that, then TV licence, water rates, vets bills and pet foods, mobile phone (epilepsy sufferers need permanent access to a phone), and I was left with nothing. I must be a big fat pie scoffer who is wasting your taxes by being ill. Moderators, I think we should close this subject because the tax payers see the non tax payers as a waste of resources. I have tried my hardest to work, and feel worse about my illness when I am told there is nothing wrong with me and that all benefit claimants are rotten country destroyers. The politicians are destroying this country, and those idiots are all able bodied!!!!

Hazel Blears claimed £110k for her "second home". That is 20 times what I get per year for my first home and every single living expense I have! Please, please, please tell me why we claimants are all such losers??

You are a tax payer - don''t let anyone tell you are not- just not an income tax payer - everyone in this country pays tax in one form or another on most things we buy including gas & eletric.

mbga9pgf

It doesnt cover their total bill though does it?

mardatha

Ok. You all agree they should work for their money, or attempt to. So they all flood into the jobcentres, and then you get paid off work. Then you get classed along with them, you get told to wait in line behind them, you get much less help/time/attention because of them. And then the sheep on here will all look down their noses as you AND them . Be careful what you wish for !

mbga9pgf

Does this person not have a family to help them? Why, with PTSD, 2 brain tumours and epilepsy (if you fall for all of that) would you want to live an independent life? Why do people think they are entitled to something they cant pay for? Surely, if there is an option to live with a family member (Parents especially) then that avenue needs to be explored prior to relying on the state to bail them out. This was the nub of Thatcher's argument; it wasnt each to their own, it was about stronger family bonds, local community especially, rather than an all encompassing big brother government.

SingleSue

donaldtramp wrote: »

I totally disagree., most do NOT realise nor appreciate they are living off the goodwill of others.


Too much generalistaion? Did you read the article from the FT? There is quite balatantly a huge proportion "on the take" from the figures printed.
You can't possibly argue with that, (but you will:rolleyes:)



There is also a "healthy proportion" who have NEVER worked a day in their lifes and/or are on the take. As proven by the first post in this thread.

I'm really glad they're getting found out and their money(MY MONEY) cut.



I agree but I refer you back to the first post which clearly highlights the number of chancers who have been trying to claim mor ethan they were due.

And Jim, you've misinterpreted that quote massively in my opinion.

It isn't about me me me screw everyone esle. It is about meeting your responsibilities.

Hehe, I am not an argumentative type...I take points on board but also wish for my points to be taken on board by others.

Yes there are chancers, there always will be but there are also very genuine down on their luck people too who have worked hard previously and you did state benefit claimants, not most, or some but benefit claimants, ergo meaning if your words were to be taken at face value, that you thought that every benefit claimant thought they were entitled without putting the work in..this is blatently incorrect.

I just like to point it out rather than it being assumed/stated that EVERY claimant is a money grabbing blot on society.

Yes, I may be being a little pedantic but I do so hate generalisations.

donaldtramp

mardatha wrote: »

Ok. You all agree they should work for their money, or attempt to. So they all flood into the jobcentres, and then you get paid off work. Then you get classed along with them, you get told to wait in line behind them, you get much less help/time/attention because of them. And then the sheep on here will all look down their noses as you AND them . Be careful what you wish for !

Nope,

I'd get NOTHING from the government. I have enough savings to see me through several years without work at my current standard of living.

I have looked after MYSELF, I have provided and saved for MYSELF, I don't expect/wish the government to look after me.
Trust me I'd get nothing for years and years.

Yet what do I get for this carefulness and planning? The joy of paying for losers who haven't.

Magic! don't you just love Clown's socialist state?

Norfolk_Jim

donaldtramp wrote: »

And Jim, you've misinterpreted that quote massively in my opinion.

It isn't about me me me screw everyone esle. It is about meeting your responsibilities.

Well donald, to be fair, my disagreement is more with Thatcher and her opinion on that particular point than with anything else. I'm a strong believer in living up to your responsibilities and also doing the right thing and in duty - none of these things make much sense if there was no society - It would be more a case of do whatever you can do regardless of how it affects others. That set about to encourage taking responsibility for onself but threw out the baby with the bathwater because she forgot or ignored the better side of our socialist past