Blow for sickness benefit claimants

screamer

mr.broderick wrote: »

I would have thought that if you had been depressed for 15 years it wouldn't be a case of just pulling yourself together.
I was depressed just a few weeks ago. I stumbled across sky sports news and discovered cristiano ronaldo had signed for real madrid. I suffered a rollercoaster of emotions, depression at him leaving us, excited at what we would do with the £80 million pounds we were going to receive for him and the anger that someone would want to leave my club for non financial reasons.
I actually logged on to mse to take my mind off things and i came across an interesting thread about a chap who had tried to use the 2 for 1 voucher at pizza express. He was a siamese twin and the voucher was refused. My depression lifted.

Yes it was just a case of pulling myself together. I realised that no matter how miserable I was, I had gone through worse and came out of it alive, and I saw things on tv, read books, that made me feel like a wimp. I've taken most things on the chin and I'm where I am now because I found my way away from that big black cloud and started seeing the good of life. I do have sympathy for depression sufferers, but not those who think they have a raw deal in life and cannot see that it is down to an individual to get better. I got over it by reminding myself I had things to live for. When I was at my wits end, I got a dog, and 3 years on I am so happy I could burst! I recently lost my younger brother to suicide (we had a tough childhood) and I feel sorry and guilty that I couldn't help the boy get rid of his own demons and live a full and happy life! I will do it for him!!!!

mbga9pgf

Something that hamish and I can agree on. Get the lazy !!!!ers on the streets if necessary. if you can work, you should, not rely on my taxes to get a free ride.

Depression is not a good enough reason. You can still do menial tasks suffering from depression. And yes, I would know. Would give the individuals involved a lot more self-worth.

SingleSue

I would have to disagree with you there mbga9pgf.

I too have suffered from normal depression (including PND x 3) and the more severe can't get out of bed type depression (none of which any kind of benefit was claimed for, my employer was most understanding). The normal bit low depression is perfectly workable through, the other more serious depression, especially if stress and pressure is a contributory factor, is not helped by having to have more of that stress and pressure, let alone the fact that facing the day is extremely difficult.

The problem with depression is that it has varying degrees, all of which are not really able to be proved with tests...so some will really have severe depression which makes working not possible for a time when it is at its worse, others will be swinging the lead and know what to say to make it appear it is severe depression, others will have milder but able to continue working depression.

I know with my last bout (the severe one), I was not able to work..in fact, I was barely able to function as a human being (think robot incapable of any kind of normal thought process and you get the picture), 18 weeks was taken off work when it was at its worse but the actual depression lasted over 3 years.

Although I will also agree partly with screamer, once I had got over the worse, I did then give myself a kick up the backside which finally brought my recovery, although it had not been possible in the beginning . I now also know the perfect way for me to avoid becoming low...study, study study! It appears for me to be settled, I need to fill my brain with facts and to stop pressuring myself for not being perfect.

donaldtramp

I've now heard a lot of arguments one way and the other but the FACTS are in the original article.
"Up to 90% are found capable of work" under the new rules/medical examinations.

It's all good and the sooner it's rolled out to check EVERY claimant the better.

That's MY money and I'm sick of hearing excuses.

We simply cannot afford to carry this lot through this period, the sooner the taxpayer (that's us!!) gets his money back the better.

It needs to be rolled out to check every claimant nationwide.

screamer

Hi, Singlesue.

It's good to hear of another success story. You're right about stress and pressure not making situations any easier. I'm not saying all depression can be cured with a good "kick up the backside" and PND is definately in that category. As you pointed out, for some sufferers it's difficult to get out of bed and face the cold light of day. I buried my head in books for 18 months to help cope with life, but I was single with no children, finding it hard to live on benefits and had no motivation to carry on. The puppy helped no end with that, and now every single morning I have a fantastic happy cute little reason to get out of bed and I love it. No one who knew my story would deny I have had a lot to cope with and occasionally people marvel at the fact that I'm still here. My OH thinks I'm the bravest person on the planet and it's that kind of support I've needed my whole life.

I am only 31 years old, and was first on Valium at the age of 7. mgba9pgf, are you going to tell the world that all depression sufferes bring it on themselves and they should all get off their lazy butts and do some work? I still suffer with mental health problems but depression isn't one of them!

And I don't work because I have 2 brain tumours, as well as asthma, Post traumatic Stress Disorder and an eating disorder and the medication I take for my Epilepsy (3 times a day) makes me more ill than any of my conditions. Does that put me in the category of being a waster who needs to find a job??

Good luck singlesue, I wish you all the best for your life and your studying, and the stroppy teenager! :-)

screamer

donaldtramp wrote: »

I've now heard a lot of arguments one way and the other but the FACTS are in the original article.
"Up to 90% are found capable of work" under the new rules/medical examinations.

It's all good and the sooner it's rolled out to check EVERY claimant the better.

That's MY money and I'm sick of hearing excuses.

We simply cannot afford to carry this lot through this period, the sooner the taxpayer (that's us!!) gets his money back the better.

It needs to be rolled out to check every claimant nationwide.

You should be Prime Minister!!!

Rochdale_Pioneers

donaldtramp wrote: »

I've now heard a lot of arguments one way and the other but the FACTS are in the original article.
"Up to 90% are found capable of work" under the new rules/medical examinations.

It's all good and the sooner it's rolled out to check EVERY claimant the better.

That's MY money and I'm sick of hearing excuses.

We simply cannot afford to carry this lot through this period, the sooner the taxpayer (that's us!!) gets his money back the better.

It needs to be rolled out to check every claimant nationwide.

Which is fine in principle. I identified 3 groups - the cannot work, the could work, and the can work. Get rid of the latter, absolutely. The could work group are difficult. For example, I know someone with a chronic back problem. She is reasonably fit 70% of the time. 10% of the time she is crippled and can't move never mind work, and the other 20% is recovery from being crippled.

How will employers treat people with chronic conditions rocking up to interview saying "I am qualified for the job, but BTW I will spend 30% of the time off sick with no notice"? The excuse for the could work group is not an excuse at all. The simple fact is that their condition makes them unemployable. Take Incapacity benefit off them and pay them JSA instead. After 6 months of being unable to find a job the system will refer them back to Incapacity as they are unemployable on medical grounds.

And the third group - the permanently chronically sick - have no chance of a job as their health simply isn't good enough. FYI existing claimants ARE ALREADY being reviewed by doctors - you talk in outraged tones like once you get Incapacity benefit you're never seen again by a doctor.

JayScottGreenspan

SingleSue wrote: »

I would have to disagree with you there mbga9pgf.

I too have suffered from normal depression (including PND x 3) and the more severe can't get out of bed type depression (none of which any kind of benefit was claimed for, my employer was most understanding). The normal bit low depression is perfectly workable through, the other more serious depression, especially if stress and pressure is a contributory factor, is not helped by having to have more of that stress and pressure, let alone the fact that facing the day is extremely difficult.

The problem with depression is that it has varying degrees, all of which are not really able to be proved with tests...so some will really have severe depression which makes working not possible for a time when it is at its worse, others will be swinging the lead and know what to say to make it appear it is severe depression, others will have milder but able to continue working depression.

I know with my last bout (the severe one), I was not able to work..in fact, I was barely able to function as a human being (think robot incapable of any kind of normal thought process and you get the picture), 18 weeks was taken off work when it was at its worse but the actual depression lasted over 3 years.

Although I will also agree partly with screamer, once I had got over the worse, I did then give myself a kick up the backside which finally brought my recovery, although it had not been possible in the beginning . I now also know the perfect way for me to avoid becoming low...study, study study! It appears for me to be settled, I need to fill my brain with facts and to stop pressuring myself for not being perfect.

Yeah, depression's a tough one alright. An absolutely appalling condition for many sufferers, but an easy con for the work shy.

Meanwhile, the lure of benefits could easily allow someone with mild depression to wallow at home and enter a downward spiral. Let's face it, if you've got used to staying at home on the sick with depression, not only does that make you less likely to see light at the end of the tunnel, but you're unlikely to be particularly honest with your GP if things do start looking up.

I guess the only real way forward is better diagnosis and treatment. For those suffering from mild depression, that treatment could well involve being as active as possible.

jennihen

Hi! I'm at work at the moment so obviously I'm fit and well. 6 weeks ago I spent 3 weeks in hospital (a regular occurence unfortunately) due to a chronic, incurable illness. No sick pay, used up all my holiday - now I'm behind with my rent and bills. 3 kids all upset by change in routine - I'm a single mum so they were all farmed out at short notice.

I am filling in new DLA forms this weekend and have two changes to my condition (been turned down for 10 years previously with just
Lupus now I have Fibromyalgia and depression to add to the list) My consultant indicated that depression could swing the decision in my favour - I think that's outrageous. But I will post the results.. . . . .

JasonLVC

Rochdale_Pioneers wrote: »

The could work group are difficult. For example, I know someone with a chronic back problem. She is reasonably fit 70% of the time. 10% of the time she is crippled and can't move never mind work, and the other 20% is recovery from being crippled.

How will employers treat people with chronic conditions rocking up to interview saying "I am qualified for the job, but BTW I will spend 30% of the time off sick with no notice"? QUOTE]

But the DDA covers discrimination against disabled people in such instances. If I was 70% of the time okay but required a lot of time off (the other 30%) due to my disability then I'd expect the employer to still employee me and to take appropriate action to deal with the 30% time.

So if that means job share or accepting a higher level of sickness from me then so be it. There are no genuine excuses for partially disabled people not to work.

I have employed someone who was off twice a week for GP appointments and illness related problems. I knew up front, she got paid (pro-rata) for the days she did work and I didn't care about how much time she had off as she did a good job when she was in and she was happy.

We could accept that employers wouldn't want to touch them with a barge pole and so discrimination is still taking place, but then I'm sure there is a body or quango or group who already exist to police this....perhaps they should police it better.