Massive debts

gargrave50

Morning all!:hello:

I've had the weekend off so back fresh faced this morning after my 40 minute walk.:D

Had a lovely letter from HBOS re: Visa this morning - I put this account into default after they sent me a copy of the application form with a copy of T&Cs.:p

They reply with the following.........

"Thank you for your letter of 9th September 2009 regarding the above agreement.

We have as yet been unable to supply details of hte reconstituted version of the executed agreement. However, we did provide a copy of the signed application form and current terms and conditions. We are satisfied the terms and conditions of the agreement were on the reverse of the application form, therefore your client had sight of these details when he signed and accepted the terms (didn't know I had a client!!:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:).

The regulations define what is required of a "copy". Whilst regulation 3 provides "every copy" of an executed agreement...shall be a true copy". Regulation 3(2) (b) provides that a copy can omit any signature box, signature or date of signature.

Whilst we try to locate the full original agreement we will not be seeking to enforce the agreement. However, even if an agreement is unenforceable, the contract still has legal effect and is not void, the lender is merely prevented from seeking an enforcement order from the court.

I note from your letter you are also disputing liability for this account but have given no basis for this dispute. As we have provided a copy of your signed agreement and you have not disputed the fact you have had the benefit of the agreement, we do not see on what basis you are disputing liability.

I am also declining your request to remove any detrimental information held on your credit file in relation to this credit card account. In signing the credit card agreement, you did give your agreement and consent to the processing of your information. It is clear that by signing the agreement, the customer agrees to their data being used as set out. This is also in compliance with the Data Protection Act. Unfortunately, as a credit file is a true reflection of the conduct of an account, I am unable to amend this information."

Now, as nice as this letter is.....................

Just a few points to make in my written response...............:D

1. I was not aware I had a client - will be charging for my services in future........:rolleyes:

2. They have been unable to supply details of the reconstituted version of the executed agreement - it is in fact the executed agreement I have requested - not a reconstituted version!;)

3. They say I am disputing liability for this account noted from my letter - my letters are below.............. I clearly state the "reasons" the account is in dispute - or is this difficult to understand.

My letter dated 9th September..........

Thank you for your letter of 3rd September 2009 received 8th September 2009.

You will be aware that you have provided a reconstituted version of my current agreement, and therefore this is not a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Act. You have also provided a copy of a signed application form, which clearly does not include the prescribed terms. Therefore neither document constitute a true copy of the executed agreement, and therefore the account remains in dispute.

Furthermore you will be aware that you are not permitted to take ANY action on this account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
• You may not pass the account to a third party.
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

If you are unable to provide a true copy of the executed agreement, please confirm this in writing. I request a full written response within 14 days of this letter.

Yours faithfully,

then on 10th September


Dear Sirs,

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.
Account Number

Thank you for your letter of 7th September 2009 received 10th September 2009. You are of the opinion that the arrears on my account are in fact an oversight, however I take pleasure in confirming the reason for non-payment as detailed below.

You will be aware that you have provided a reconstituted version of my current agreement, and therefore this is not a true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Act. You have also provided a copy of a signed application form, which clearly does not include the prescribed terms. Therefore neither document constitute a true copy of the executed agreement, and therefore the account remains in dispute.

Furthermore you will be aware that you are not permitted to take ANY action on this account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
• You may not pass the account to a third party.
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

If you are unable to provide a true copy of the executed agreement, please confirm this in writing. Therefore, I suggest that until such times as you are able to provide a copy of said executed agreement that you do not communicate with me further. Further collections activity on this account will result in a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman and the Office of Fair Trading, as this contravenes the OFT Debt Collection guidelines.

4. Lastly - they decline to remove any detrimental information held on my account - however it is the agreement which gives them the right to share this information - the agreement that they are unable to provide

This little beauty definately deserves a letter............

Must go to the doctors, and get some shopping first...........:D

gargrave50

Morning all:hello:,

Well - some strange post this morning...............:cool:

A letter from Reliable Collections - this refers to a catalogue account of mine - and I note they are based at the same address:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Its a notification of an agreed payment plan - agreeing to £27 per month - I pay £6.92 a week and have been blindly doing so for around 10 weeks.

The bit I really love is the following

"However, in order to set up the plan our clients have charged a one-off arrangement fee of 10% of the balance (balance is £1115.48) in line with their trading terms. This has been added to your balance................"

What a bloody cheek - will be asking to view these trading terms and for justification of how such a fee is "fair" for setting up a payment plan. I have to say there are no costs for them as I've been paying this all along by standing order and will continue to do so.......:mad:

Even more amusing than that.............:rolleyes:

A letter from Next Directory. I have been paying them £6.92 as agreed weekly for 3 or 4 months now - no payments missed. However, when I received my statement the other day I noticed there was a service charge of £24.11 and was just about to write to them re: this as they had promised no further interest or charges whilst I kept to the agreement.

Now the best bit................. I received this letter today much to my surprise!

"Dear Mrs G,

Further to your recent conversation (what recent conversation?!!!) regarding your request to reduce your monthly payment to Next Directory (nope - no such request).

To enable us to process the reduced payment, I would be grateful if you could sign and return in the pre paid envelope this reduced payment agreement, and credit agreement (do they think I am stupid? The CCA they provided me with is illegible but of course I will sign this one so they have a nice clean one in their records!!!). Once this has been received (you'll be waiting) your account will be amended to expect the reduced payment.

The agreement will commence on 17 October 2009. Each payment is required to be made by the following dates:

Payment Date and Amount to Pay were shown - they are requesting £6 per month

Blah de blah .......

I'm completely confuddled with this one! Will be writing to them asking who they have been discussing my account with................ oh and pointing out that the CCA is illegible AGAIN.:rolleyes:

gargrave50

Just thought I'd post my reply to Next (as many of you know I've lost all my files before and this is a handy way of keeping an accurate track of what I've sent to who!!!)

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE SINCE 17th AUGUST 2009
Customer Account CAxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter of 18th September 2009 received today.

I am concerned that your letter refers to “our recent conversation”. I have not been in any communication with Next Directory, as we had an arrangement in place which I have continued to adhere to. My original offer of reduced payment at the rate of £6.92 per week was first proposed in my letter of 30th June 2009, and accepted by Next with the promise of no further charges or interest for a period of 6 months when this arrangement would be reviewed. I have continued to honour this agreement paying £6.92 each week, however I note on my recent statement dated 17th September 2009, that a service charge of £24.11 has been levied against the account. When Next Directory wrote to me confirming written acceptance of my proposal, you insisted on stating the payment would be £30 per month. I wrote to confirm this would be at the proposed rate of £6.92 per week as our income was paid weekly. This amount over the week would equate to approximately £30 per month (£6.92 x 52 weeks divided by 12 months). Given that I have continued to honour the proposed agreement I intend to continue to pay the agreed amount by standing order as previously arranged. I trust you will remove the service charge of £24.11 levied on my September statement.

I draw your attention to my letter of 27th August 2009 which clearly states the reasons this account is currently in dispute. You have been unable to provide a legible copy of my consumer credit agreement, and you will be aware that the prescribed terms and the document in its entirety must be legible to be considered enforceable. Despite the account now being formally in dispute, I have continued to make my proposed payments. If you are unable to honour this agreement, then please advise me of this in writing and I will discontinue payments until you are able to provide a legible copy of the alleged consumer credit agreement.

Yours faithfully

gargrave50

Just to add a copy of my response to HBOS re: Visa

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.
Account Number 4560 xxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter of 16th September 2009 received 21st September 2009.

You will be aware that you have been unable to provide a true copy of the EXECUTED consumer credit agreement, as required by the Act. You have also provided a copy of a signed application form, which does not constitute the executed consumer credit agreement as it does not embody the prescribed terms. Your letter states that you have been unable to supply details of the reconstituted version of the executed agreement, however it is not a reconstituted version which you are required to provide, and as such I continue to await a true copy of the EXECUTED consumer credit agreement.

Your letter states that in the presence of an unenforceable agreement, you are merely prevented from seeking an enforcement order from the court. Let me take this opportunity to clarify what actions you may and may not take.

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
• You may not pass the account to a third party.
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

I note you decline my request to remove detrimental information held on my credit record in relation to this credit card account. You will be aware that the consumer credit agreement is the very document which, when signed, gives consent to the processing of my information. As you have been unable to locate this executed agreement, you are not in possession of my alleged consent to the processing of said information. Therefore, you do not have the right to share this information with any other party. It is my intention to pursue this matter under the Data Protection Act if you do not remove this information, until such times as you have been able to provide a true copy of the executed credit agreement, which would give you the right to share this information.

I request a full written response within 14 days of this letter.

Yours faithfully,

gargrave50

And again.................... this time a copy of a letter sent to Barclaycard as they continue to send request for payment letters:rolleyes:

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE
Account Number 5301 XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Thank you for your request for payment letter of 9th September 2009.
The account remains in dispute as you have been unable to provide a true copy of the executed consumer credit agreement. I note from your letter that you are of the opinion that the arrears on my account are in fact an oversight, however I take pleasure in confirming the reason for non-payment as detailed below.
You will be aware that you have provided a copy of the current terms and conditions of a Barclaycard account, and despite several written requests have been unable to provide a true copy of the executed consumer credit agreement, as required by the Act. As this document does not constitute a true copy of the executed agreement, the account remains in dispute until such times as said true copy is provided.

Furthermore you will be aware that you are not permitted to take ANY action on this account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
• You may not pass the account to a third party.
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

If you are unable to provide a true copy of the executed agreement, please confirm this in writing. Therefore, I suggest that until such times as you are able to provide a copy of said executed agreement that you do not communicate with me further. Further collections activity on this account will result in a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman and the Office of Fair Trading, as this contravenes the OFT Debt Collection guidelines.

I note you refer to information shared with credit reference agencies. You will be aware that the consumer credit agreement is the very document which, when signed, gives consent to the processing of my information. As you have been unable to locate this executed agreement, you are not in possession of my alleged consent to the processing of said information. Therefore, you do not have the right to share this information with any other party. It is my intention to pursue this matter under the Data Protection Act if you do not remove this information, until such times as you have been able to provide a true copy of the executed credit agreement, which would give you the right to share this information.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is an ongoing formal complaint which has not reached a satisfactory conclusion.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to your written response and wish to clarify my ongoing request correspond in writing only and not be contacted by telephone.

Yours faithfully,

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

c.c. Barclaycard, 1234 Pavilion Drive, Northampton, NN4 1SG

BlueJeans_2

Hi Gar

Just popping in for a quick catch up and to say hello.

Nothing happening with my creditors re DMP at the min but I should imagine it will all hit the fan soon.

No more reclaims either yet, although Halifax have promised to refund over £1000 in PPI payments within the next month:j.

Will log on again soon for another catch up and stick to your guns with Next.

gargrave50

Thanks BJ,

I have to say (naively or not) I expected more !!!!!! to hit the fan when I first started this process. I think we are coping quite well.

Keep on top of Halifax with their time scale. If the month passes, get back on to them requesting written confirmation of the time scale payment will be made

Verbatim

Well done Gargrave. You're really socking it to them!

Katy83

Verbatim wrote: »

Well done Gargrave. You're really socking it to them!

I agree - that letter is properly kick-!!!!! :T

MyopicMoo

Well done - I always enjoy reading your letters, oddly they cheer me up! There is nothing quite like drafting a stern letter to a bunch of muppets.