Parking ticket in Dual use car park

Valli

Hi all - first time here!

I park regularly in a car park in Chesterfield which is used on a Mon- Fri as a private car park for North East Derbyshire District Council offices. There's an entrance to the offices, for staff, round the back and adjacent to this there are 6 disabled spaces. They are about as far away from the entrance and exit of the car park as they could be.
On a Saturday the car park is opened up to the public and is a pay car park.

Some months ago I asked a car park attendant (they walk round and check all the parking all over town) if these spaces were intended for the disabled on a Saturday. He said not, parked there (paid) no problem.

Did it today and came back to find a PCN £70 but £35 if paid within 14 days. (Issued by Park Smarter)

I have written the following to dispute:

Dear Sirs

I wish to dispute the above referenced PCN for the following reason. The car park in question is used as an office car park from Monday to Friday; on Saturday only it is opened as a public (pay) car park. I have been using this car park regularly on Saturday mornings for some time.

The designated disabled spaces are adjacent to the office entrance. They are not convenient for disabled users on a Saturday being some distance from either of the car park entrances. Some time ago I asked a Chesterfield Borough Council officer if these were ‘still’ disabled spaces on a Saturday as I believed that they were intended for employees of the District Council or for customers with council business, who are disabled, from Monday - Friday. I was told that he didn’t believe they were ‘any use’ for disabled drivers on a Saturday and I parked in a ‘disabled’ space without penalty.

This is never a particularly busy car park, even on a Saturday around Christmas time and I don’t believe many disabled drivers use it as it is a fair walk down into town; moreover there are spaces nearer to the car park entrances which would be more convenient than these designated spaces. The signage on the disabled spaces should be reworded so that it can be seen exactly when the spaces are intended for disabled drivers, particularly as this car park has two distinct roles, i.e. a private car park for five days a week and a public car park for one day.

Since I have been advised by a parking enforcement officer that these disabled spaces ‘don’t apply’ on a Saturday I believe that I should not pay this penalty charge.

Yours faithfully






(Valli)


Please don't get me wrong - I wouldn't dream of parking in a disabled space normally but I believe that these are for employees only (you need a code to access the car park Mon-Fri. I think) or possibly customers. They are not only a fair distance from the pedestrian entrances - but from town itself so I cannot see why anyone with walking difficulties would want to park there - there is nothing close by - no shops etc and there is plenty of on street disabled parking in town and car parks much closer to the town centre; in the multi storey car parks there are whole floors designated as disabled only. And it isn't money saving as all disabled car park spaces have to be paid for in Chesterfield (although at a reduced rate)
Incidentally I did pay the full rate £1.30 for 2 hours (not the disabled rate which I believe is £1 for 4 hours).

Is it worth fighting?

If I log the dispute but then still have to pay will I have to pay the £70 if it takes longer than a fortnight?

Thanks for looking! Valli x


Sorry - thought this was in Parking Fines sub-forum. I have pm'd a board guide to ask for it to be moved

jb66

Seems like you have a valid point, i'll let the experts decide weather you can win this

Valli

jb66 wrote: »

Seems like you have a valid point, i'll let the experts decide whether you can win this

Worth a fight then! ***sharpens quill***

Like Marty Feldman said then

The pen is mightier than the sword...and considerably easier to write with!

Bowling_4_Gold

It doesn't make the blindest bit of difference where the Disabled 'spaces' are but they are a legal requirement.

unfortunatly, you can't really fight it on the grounds a P.A told you the disabled spaces don't apply, because it is negligence on your part to have parked in a disabled space in the first place.

You say it was issued by 'Park Smarter' who I assume are not the police or the local council, in which case you were actually given an invoice and not a PCN. Your best bet is to ignore the notice and any other letters they may send. They are more likely to drop the case if you ignore them; it is a bit like 'fueling the fire' as it were.

DO NOT send the email/letter you typed above, so long as you are sure it is not the Council/police who issued it.

kiddy_guy

I think you need to clarify that you work at these offices - the letter does not state this.

Valli

Kiddy guy - I don't work at these offices - It's a public car park on saturday. Don't know why you think I do? The parking ticket was issued on a saturday (today) when the car park is available for public use and the offices are closed.

Bowling-4 although the ticket was issued by Park Smarter on the notice various councils logos feature. The ticket states that the enforcement authority is Chesterfield Borough Council and their name is on the ticket.

I can't scan but it says

PCN Number (number) served on 27/06/09 by Civil Enforcement Officer (number) "who had reason to believe that the following contravention had occurred and that a penalty charge is now payable:
Parked in a designated disabled person's parking place without displaying a valid disabled person's badge in the prescribed manner."

I'm disputing it because of the dual use of the car park and the fact that the disabled spaces are, in effect, useless for a disabled person on a saturday. And I have parked in those spaces before (more than once TBH) and NOT had a ticket. On a Saturday.

ETA On the back it states that

'Further information about Civil Parking Enforcement(including PCNs and NtO) is available on line at www.patrol-uk.info'

What exactly have I been issued with then? According to that website's diagram they will pursue me through court if I don't pay and an appeal is unsuccessful - but not much information on it. That's why I came to ask MSE'ers (many of whom do seem to know what they are talking about) (albeit in the (slightly) wrong place).

Thanks for commenting!

Valli x

Valli

To add a bit of further information

Apparently I can challenge this ticket online at www.parksmarter.org.uk

but when I log onto the website all I can actually do is download a pdf form to fill in and POST to them - so NOT a challenge online.

Similarly if I require further clarification on how to challenge my PCN I can phone 0845 5202468 and select option 3

That was a waste of time too - it gave me another option and then said I could collect my messages!

peter_the_piper

Please raise a post on the parking forum as the experts there might not be looking here and you would miss the correct advice.

Valli

Peter

I have already pm'd a board guide (Crabman) as I realised, after my first post that I had not put this in the sub forum for Parking (which I had intended to) to ask that this thread be moved...and stated that in my first post. If there are any other board guides here I would be grateful if they could move this thread...

Thanks

Pew_Pew_Pew_Lasers!

Bowling_4_Gold wrote: »

You say it was issued by 'Park Smarter' who I assume are not the police or the local council, in which case you were actually given an invoice and not a PCN. Your best bet is to ignore the notice and any other letters they may send. They are more likely to drop the case if you ignore them; it is a bit like 'fueling the fire' as it were.

This isn't really very good advice, since councils can subcontract such work to companies.

Don't ignore the letter.

Takoda

I can honestly say in about 25 years of parking motor vehicles in car parks I have NEVER seen a part time disabled space. They either are or aren't disabled spaces! I don't think you can justify parking in one on the basis that they are 'no use' to disabled people because they are a far distance from shops etc.

I know the car park you are talking about well although as a biker I park in the free motorcycle spaces! Chesteffield is a lot easier to navigate by bike and parking is free woo hoo!

Plus your letter and your post have a discrepancy. You claim in your post to have asked the parking operative if the "spaces were intended for the disabled on a Saturday" and he is supposed to have said they weren't.

But in the letter you say you were "told that he didn’t believe they were ‘any use’ for disabled drivers on a Saturday" Surely they are two totally different things!

Some disabled people have scooters that fit in cars or wheelchairs so the distance isn't always going to be a problem. Some of the disabled spaces in the Tesco car park are further away than non-disabled spaces but that doesn't mean they are no use!

I don't think you stand much chance of getting it waived to be honest.

Unless you can find the parking operative who you claim told you it was OK. In your situation I'd have got his employee number so I had some redress.

But good luck anyway. Have you written to the Derbyshire Times? They seem to like letters about parking ;o)