Tesco - Parent/Child + disabled car spaces

FatAndy

trisontana wrote: »

As for the "they can't touch me for it". So what? Unless you are breaking the law you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise any Tom. !!!!!! or Harry would start bringing out their own "laws" and start "fining" people. I could say "I think I will fine anyone who walks on my front lawn £50" The law does not work like that.

Are you a solicitor by any chance? Regards your comment 'Unless you are breaking the law you have nothing to worry about'. Really? What about moral obligations, what about politeness, common sense, social responsibility? Just because there isn't something written in statute to say that an act is unlawful it doesn't mean that that act is acceptable and it doesn't give you carte blanche to carry out that act. There's a bit more life to what's written in law books I'm afraid.

FatAndy

trisontana wrote: »

You are missing the point. What we are arguing against is the imposition of these arbitrary fines. The only money that a private parking company can claim back from somebody overstaying the time, or parking in the wrong slot is any loss that has been suffered by the company. If it's £1 an hour and you stay another hour that's just £1. If you park in the wrong sort of slot there has been no loss - especially if the car-park is not full at the time. It is illegal to try and extract penalties which have now bearing on the actual loss that has been suffered. The parking companies are not above the law and they can't make their own laws. Only Parliament can do that.

If you look at the heading this debate is about people without kids in the car parking in P&C spaces. I'm saying it's wrong to do this. As I've said several times the issue of fines is a red herring.

However, I would point that on occasions I have gone to one supermarket, found all the P&C spaces to be full, and taken the decision to go to another supermarket. In these cases the first supermarket will have lost sales of maybe £60. I don't know what the mark ups are but the first supermarket will certainly have lost more than £1. If a number of other parents take the same decision then the losses will mount up. Perhaps this explains why they are now starting to take steps to stop this abuse of their property?

OrkneyStar

anitalg wrote: »

Why cant they do a tannoy announcement and ask the owner of blahblah to move his car as he is parked in the incorrect bay? I dont care where the mum and baby spaces are, just that they are wide enough so I can get the buggy by the side of the car to get kiddy out. I had a similar fight with B&Q, I have never been able to park in theirs and they really dont care at all.

Whats the point of having baby, toddler or disabled spaces if they cant be enforced so they can be used by the people they are for??

Surely you don't need the buggy by the side of the car ?
You just need to be able to get baby out!
I have a bad back and cannot always lift that well but never expected to put buggy right beside the car....whats wrong with in front or behind (depending on whether you back or drive in!).

ever_the_optimist wrote: »

Okay .. this is for all you people who complain about getting little dents in your car doors when they are parked in car parks ... THAT'S what parent and child spaces are for - have you ever tried getting a child seat out of the back of a car? Well you aren't going to manage it with barely a foot of space that you get in most car parks. Similarly if you have to lean into the back of the car to buckle / unbuckle your childs seat belt you need room to lean in and stick your bum out !

Personally I think there should also be 'pregnant lady' spaces too ... I remember having to pull back out of a narrow space after I couldn't open the door wide enough to get my bump out !

So .. please stop complaining and think of it as a way to protect your paintwork

I have seen 'mum to be' spaces at Asda.

trisontana

FatAndy wrote: »

Are you a solicitor by any chance? Regards your comment 'Unless you are breaking the law you have nothing to worry about'. Really? What about moral obligations, what about politeness, common sense, social responsibility? Just because there isn't something written in statute to say that an act is unlawful it doesn't mean that that act is acceptable and it doesn't give you carte blanche to carry out that act. There's a bit more life to what's written in law books I'm afraid.

Of course I obey both actual laws and "moral" ones. What many of us object to is the way supermarkets and parking companies can dream up some fancy, non existent "law" and then try and "fine" people for it. In fact they are probably breaking the law themselves by demanding money with menaces by doing that.

biscit

trisontana wrote: »

Then I could prosecute that person for trespass in the civil court, but I would not be able to charge that person an arbitrary "fine" for parking in my driveway.

Strictly speaking they're charges, not fines. The difference is in their enforcability, not how fair they are.

You could put up a notice saying anyone parking on your land without permission owned you £50. It would not be an arbitrary fine, but a clear
service charge.

If someone ignored the notice you could ask for the money. You may struggle to get the person to cough up. But there is nothing wrong, morally or legally, with you setting that charge and asking for it.

The moral fault is entirely with the person parking on your drive.

trisontana

biscit wrote: »

Strictly speaking they're charges, not fines.

You could put up a notice saying anyone parking on your land without permission owned you £50. It would not be an arbitrary fine, but a clear
service charge.

If someone ignored the notice you could ask for the money. You may struggle to get the person to cough up. But there is nothing wrong, morally or legally, with you setting that charge and asking for it.

The moral fault is entirely with the person parking on your drive.

It is illegal to demand an arbitrary amount such as that £50. The only money you can ask for is the actual loss you have suffered, you cannot pluck any old amount out of thin air.

This is the same argument being used by the people suing the banks over unfair charges. If it costs the bank just £2.50 to tell you that you are overdrawn, they cannot then charge you £30 for doing so.

BFG_2

Dan_Thomas wrote: »

Possibly the most selfish attitude I've seen.

You think that because some idiots park in parent/child spaces, that it is acceptable for you to take up 2 parking bays and possibly begrudge normal people of a spot. Just because you have a child, this does not make you more important than other shoppers. You're not special. You're not some hero starting a radical parking movement. You're just a selfish parent who can't consider other people.

Besides, why the need to park over 2 spaces? If there are 2 spaces next to each other, why don't you just park in the one, therefore leaving sufficient space on the other side to get out of the car?

If you have a real problem with people consistently parking in the parent/child spaces, then maybe consider going when it's quieter? Stop going straight after school finishes. Or simply, shop elsewhere. People managed for years without these poxy I-have-a-baby-I-demand-special-rights-because-I-can't-get-out-of-a-car spaces for a long time.

Yes, I can accept it's annoying when "your" space is taken. But don't shaft other shoppers with your selfish ways. Let's put it like this; if someone drives into a car park, and the only space that's free is a parent space, and it's clear to see that other parents have decided to take up TWO spaces, are you really going to be shocked when people park in the parent space?

tldr: Two wrongs don't make a right. Stop being a jerk.

Gee, where to start............

I never said I took two spaces because I've got a kid that needs a kiddie seat [i don't]; I take two spaces because it's more convenient and it's easier for me to get in and out of the car?? So all your rage, rant and jerky, snidy commnets about kids/parents etc is somewhat wasted [amusant, but ultimately wasted]

Spaces are just that - spaces. If you need more space just use it; surely that's sensible?

Look around the car park next time you use it and see how much empty space there is....lots of space for everyone to use more than one space.

The point I was making was - why let yourself be hemmed in by tiddly little white lines on the ground, use as much space as you need to.

If Tesco et al drew the lines further apart [say twice the distance apart?] would you then feel that is was OK to take up that 'space'???

Whats wrong with using as much space as you need to??

If I drove a big lorry that took up 4 spaces would you still expect me to park in 'a single space'??

I bet you're the sort of person who does things 'because we've been told to do it that way' and whose most common saying is 'we couldn't possibly do that, what would the neighbours/church/family/'other' people think'.

You're sort of right on one thing, two wrongs don't make a right [but only in a stricly conformist legal view [which obviously suits you]; there are people who say that on a moralistic and karma pov it can make a right].

Please respond as I'm bored.

biscit

My local Morrisons have a pay and display car park. The charge for 1 hour is 60p, 2 hours £1. Terms and conditions are on prominent notices. OK you may need to stop and look to see what the precise terms and conditions, but they are prominent enough for you to see that there are terms and conditions.

OK they refund the charges against a purchase, but there is no moral or legal requirement on them to do that.

Setting charges on Parent & Child spaces as: "people with young children £0, people without £60", or even "People who comply with the T&C £0, people who don't £60" is no different morally or legally to the hourly charges in Morrisons, Keighley.

It may be less easy for a supermarket to collect these charges, and relatively easy to avoid them if you have a nerve, but this does not affect the morality or legitimacy of the charges.

OrkneyStar

BFG wrote: »

Gee, where to start............

I never said I took two spaces because I've got a kid that needs a kiddie seat [i don't]; I take two spaces because it's more convenient and it's easier for me to get in and out of the car?? So all your rage, rant and jerky, snidy commnets about kids/parents etc is somewhat wasted [amusant, but ultimately wasted] selfish

Spaces are just that - spaces. If you need more space just use it; surely that's sensible? no

Look around the car park next time you use it and see how much empty space there is....lots of space for everyone to use more than one space. not at our supermarkets

The point I was making was - why let yourself be hemmed in by tiddly little white lines on the ground, use as much space as you need to. that is the alloted space that is needed

If Tesco et al drew the lines further apart [say twice the distance apart?] would you then feel that is was OK to take up that 'space'??? yes as it would be an alloted bay

Whats wrong with using as much space as you need to?? selfish (again!)

If I drove a big lorry that took up 4 spaces would you still expect me to park in 'a single space'?? no as a lorry needs the space, but does not expect extra space around it other than room to remove deliveries

I bet you're the sort of person who does things 'because we've been told to do it that way' and whose most common saying is 'we couldn't possibly do that, what would the neighbours/church/family/'other' people think'. no, just being considerate probably

You're sort of right on one thing, two wrongs don't make a right [but only in a stricly conformist legal view [which obviously suits you]; there are people who say that on a moralistic and karma pov it can make a right].

Please respond as I'm [STRIKE]bored[/STRIKE]selfish but can't see it!.

This is the sort of selfish response that is all too common.
Get a smaller car, learn to park properly, don't think you are so important that you need more than one space!

poet123

Why would anyone want or need more than one space to park car ? unless they were;-

1. A bad driver
2. Exceedingly obese
3 Deliberately difficult
4. Selfish

Or a combination of all the above.:rolleyes: